BIG GROUP

[Ark]

Open to new joiners?

Hi

I was in MTM's scheme in 2008 - 2009 so I have loans from them. HMRC opened an enquiry. Trying to choose between Big Group and an advisor. Not even sure how to decide but I can't afford both.

Is Big Group accepting new joiners right now?

Is MTM's loan scheme part of what Big Group is working on?

[AnthonyB]

Is there any information on here that can be publicly shared? I understood there were some court cases pencilled in. Have these gone ahead and have they gone well?

I'm wrapped up with Pembroke PAYE and in the middle of submitting a self assessment in the hope that the wider problem starts to clarify itself and I can respond appropriately.

It also appears that HMRC are taking 'pop shots' and I'm not aware of any challenge going through the courts/running it's full course. I'm keen to see what happens then, when HMRC attempt to retrospectively apply a law to levy more tax... Along with how long people get to pay and how much they have to pay etc.

[webberg]

Is there any information on here that can be publicly shared? I understood there were some court cases pencilled in. Have these gone ahead and have they gone well?

I'm wrapped up with Pembroke PAYE and in the middle of submitting a self assessment in the hope that the wider problem starts to clarify itself and I can respond appropriately.

It also appears that HMRC are taking 'pop shots' and I'm not aware of any challenge going through the courts/running it's full course. I'm keen to see what happens then, when HMRC attempt to retrospectively apply a law to levy more tax... Along with how long people get to pay and how much they have to pay etc.

That's a lot of questions.

1. Cases have been heard in the Tribunals. These begin with Boyle (2013?) Rangers 2017, Hoey 2019. We are aware of two others heard but no decision yet. We have a number of cases going in case management hearings shortly.

2. Pembroke PAYE is, I understand, a scheme where the promoter is now in liquidation. Consequently users of that scheme may find themselves fighting on two fronts. HMRC will be one and the liquidator seeking to recoup assets will be another. I'm not sure what you mean by the "wider problem start[ing] to clarify itself"? The "problems" have been defined. HMRC say that you received money that should have been taxed and the question is who should pay it, you or the employer. Further that scheme promoter is now penniless and therefore HMRC is pressurising the liquidator to go after the tax bill using his powers. If you like, HMRC is playing heads I win, tails you lose. Problem is defined.

3. I'm not aware of HMRC taking "pop shots". Please clarify.

4. HMRC does NOT have the power to make law, retrospective or otherwise. Only Parliament has that power. In the field of taxation it is an accepted principle that retrospective law can be used to correct obvious and exceptional instances of the law being used to create an abusive situation. Unfortunately mission creep set in and HMRC sought to persuade Parliament that the failure of the agency to make use of information they had and failed to do anything with, was an "obvious and exceptional" case. Sir Amyas Morse and now the Government, having reviewed and looked again, have concluded that this was not the case. Will this setback deter HMRC in the future? Sadly the answer is that unless the architects of the policy that led to the loan charge are removed, they will feel that their actions were "valid" despite the crushing conclusions of the loan charge review.

5. Time to pay has been a feature of settlement and paying tax for many, many years. It has never been reduced to a forumla which allows certainty. It is always based on personal circumstances. Our experience is that periods of between 4 and 8 years are relatively routine. Longer than that not so much.

You will find that the adviser groups here and in the wider world do not willingly share information. This means that our strategy for instance is well known but the details of why we think it works and how we are advancing to Tribunal are not shared publicly. There are many reasons for this, but for us come down to client confidentiality. If you have an agent you are entitled to think that the information you share is going to remain secret. We respect that.

We use that information to build a strategy. It is checked/validated by external barristers usually (but they are only as good as their instructions and therefore their OPINION is just that - an OPINION - not a statement of irrefutable fact).

For a commercial business, the strategy/tactics devised and opined upon, is valuable IP of the business and more importantly has been paid for and therefore belongs to the clients. Making a gift of it to others who have not done the research or put in the hours, but who see a chance to ride the coattails of those who have - for a fee - serves clients poorly.

No client group is ever secure. You can be sure that newsletters or email traffic put out by an adviser is in the hands of other advisers pretty quickly. Hence we - and all the others - have become wary about what is shared in public. We prefer to hold webinars for clients to discuss detail. Perhaps others do the same.

I'm afraid that this situation means that until you join such a group, access to the sort of detail you are asking for is going to be limited.

[RK87]

I have messaged you.

Hi webberg, please do let me know how to join this Big Group.

[webberg]

Hi webberg, please do let me know how to join this Big Group.

Go to WTT Consulting website and follow the links.

[rado]

I am in too

[webberg]

Big Group is and always has been a group of people who want to resolve their tax affairs.

Recently we have seen loan repayment demands in respect of the K2/Hyrax schemes and those in the IQ "family", including Garraway, Winchester, Darwin, Sanzar.

As a necessity therefore we have created sub groups for these schemes with the sole purpose of contesting, managing or otherwise dealing with the loan repayment demands.

These groups have a separate pricing structure depending on the action being taken.

If you are in Big Group and also in one of the above, you will be receiving a notice from us today (perhaps tomorrow).

We also have non client versions of these notices which we would be happy to supply upon request and after some basic checks.

We are also holding webinars on the situation next week. I will put up time and dates shortly.

[webberg]

Those clients with loans from K2 and/or Hyrax or IQ, Sanzar, Winchester, Garraway, Darwin, Infinity, Longacre should have received an update from us in the past few days.

if not, please let us know.

[webberg]

Members will have noticed that the BG forum is presently closed and will remain closed for a period.

If you have any questions, please email us [email protected] or call us or email your usual contact at WTT.

Thanks.

[WTFH]

Members will have noticed that the BG forum is presently closed and will remain closed for a period.

Maybe that's why they are on here posting/stirring/making claims about others.