BIG GROUP

[MercladUK]

I don't know how cheeky this may be, but could this be setup as a not for profit charity?

Therefore any donations would incur tax relief

[webberg]

Thanks for driving this, Webberg. A conf call would be neat for those not in London, if at all possible!

Yes I think it would be sensible or possibly a video conf?

I'm feeling my way towards an objective and a constitution and would welcome input to the following. In particular the lexicon I'm using is biased towards my field of work and it's important that we all understand what we mean by certain words.

Factors driving the objectives

Objectives

The objective is to find common ground and counter arguments to HMRC accusations that arrangements used by contractors create tax advantages that can be recovered via an APN or in litigation.

Respecting the efforts of action groups on individual provider schemes it is hoped that sharing information, pooling resources and knowledge and creating a supportive environment will lead to the identification of new and alternative arguments and have the financial power to pursue these to a conclusion.

All analysis and technical argument developed will belong to the members and subject to certain safeguards will be shared with individual provider scheme members.

The group will look for answers to questions raised on ALL contractor schemes so far known to be under active investigation by HMRC and those expected to become so over the next few years.

Schemes to be reviewed

Contractor schemes appear to fall into three types which can be determined by time and certain characteristics. The following is a brief summary and not a detailed analysis (which will be prepared and shared with paying members rather than hand HMRC a free ticket).

Schemes up to early 2008 relied in many cases on placing funds into the care of offshore parties before repatriation. The terms of the various double tax agreements would be used to exempt any further taxes being deducted. These schemes have been attacked with retrospective legislation and are already subject to a successful group of users. It is not anticipated that BIG GROUP will be able to add value to the current position. However close ties and cooperation are anticipated.

Other schemes from perhaps 2001 to 2011 relied upon the use of an intermediary trust or other vehicle via which funds would be routed. These "contractor loan" schemes are subject to an HMRC settlement offer at present. These schemes were largely disclosed under the DOTAS rules and many are subject to APN at present. The BIG GROUP is unlikely at this stage to be able to offer individual help on APN matters although later issues of notices may be able to be stalled.

Schemes from 2011 relied upon a number of means to reduce the effective rate of tax. These were generally not disclosed and HMRC will no doubt be discussing this with scheme users in due course. Non disclosure means information on such schemes is relatively thin on the ground. Members of such schemes may be required to contribute fees on a different profile in order to recognise the initial information collation and research required.

Where possible cooperation with existing and past providers will be sought, even if this is at a cost.

AS I SAID - A WORKING DOCUMENT AND OBSERVATIONS/COMMENTS/EDIT/ADDITIONS/ETC WELCOME

[zonam]

Well worth £50

Count me in.

[webberg]

I don't know how cheeky this may be, but could this be setup as a not for profit charity?

Therefore any donations would incur tax relief

No because a charity has to have objects for the common good and be in particular areas such as education, health, promotion of knowledge etc.

Might be able to get EIS relief if I can find the right scheme.

[Workinghard]

Count me in too, thank you!

[ads1980]

The following is a brief summary and not a detailed analysis (which will be prepared and shared with paying members rather than hand HMRC a free ticket)

Just on the point of HMRC and a free ticket.... I don't know to what levels they would go to but would they for instance pay to join the big group on the basis they can glean more information out of it? Call my cynical but I just don't trust them at all. How can we properly vet the members to prevent this or do you not think it will be likely?

[DotasScandal]

Just on the point of HMRC and a free ticket.... I don't know to what levels they would go to but would they for instance pay to join the big group on the basis they can glean more information out of it? Call my cynical but I just don't trust them at all. How can we properly vet the members to prevent this or do you not think it will be likely?

You are right in your mistrust.
A vetting process is mandatory. There are ways for that, which individual groups have in place already.

[chr16v]

i`m in.

[webberg]

JR or not to JR?

Picking up on the closed thread about joining a JR for an APN, please note:

For practical reasons, any APN with a payment date within the next three months (say to end July) is unlikely to be subject to a JR via the big group.

This is because the group is unlikely to be functional in sufficient time to appoint a firm for a JR.

(I would also add at the risk of repeating myself, that the purpose of this group is not really JR but the substantive underlying issue of just how much liability exists).

So please don't join if your ONLY reason is you think it will act to stall an APN via a JR.

[dangerouswhensober]

Current head count ...

The group head-count of pledges at the end of Day 5 is 47 - these are (again in no particular order, except for the last few):

linuxcat regron LandRover thecolour
dangerouswhensober MercladUK DotasScandal z4thras
squirrel StrengthInNumbers convict LEC
jcb78 Sky Rocket ads1980 oldman
flamel Scruff jbryce famousfive
costo fetabob neil99 fielder
DarnEBTs Samatra Axeman convict
lastManStanding bentley0632 a Man of Constant Penguin
Reddevil Gaskie Computer Milo
porrker davieloco Emmybeckmann FTTM
POST #79 - klmedlock
POST #80 - cliffordthedog
POST #85 - staropramen42
POST #86 - FairnesstoAll
POST #93 - zonam
POST #95 - Workinghard
POST #98 - chr16v

With another three possibles:

carling
jrock
lutkeg

Please shout if you think there are any mistakes above ...

(Would be nice to get to the half century within seven days of the first post - which will be 14:32 31st April 2015 - tomorrow afternoon)