HMRC Enquiries: Bedouin/Redstone

[TestMangler]

You might perhaps want to point out that it will take a few years before he finally finds out it's very bad. The other thing to point out is that HMRC will definitely demand the tax eventually and he'll have to take the case to court.

But probably he'll carry on anyway.

Yup, tried that explanation and your are correct, he's carrying on. If he'd come out the first time I told him (about 18 months ago) he'd have been ok, with only six months to worry about.

[cojak]

Yup, tried that explanation and your are correct, he's carrying on. If he'd come out the first time I told him (about 18 months ago) he'd have been ok, with only six months to worry about.

He'll then blame you for not trying harder to dissuade him...

[TestMangler]

He'll then blame you for not trying harder to dissuade him...

Probably. But he'll get zero sympathy here.

You can only tell someone something so many times when they won't listen. I know, I've been married for years

[BlasterBates]

He's probably past the point of no return. The bad thing is, particularly for recent years it seems to me, is that HMRC are now starting to calculate the tax as though your earnings are net of tax.

[centurian]

He's probably past the point of no return. The bad thing is, particularly for recent years it seems to me, is that HMRC are now starting to calculate the tax as though your earnings are net of tax.

To elaborate that for the "mate" in question - this means you end up paying significantly more tax than you ever avoided - even factoring in fees paid to scheme promoters.

Can HMRC get away with this - well they can argue whatever figure they like for the APN - you don't have any judicial right of appeal. If he's really, really lucky, the scheme providers might take HMRC to court to prove their case and get the money back, but I wouldn't count on it.

If he's still deaf, after all this, then he's beyond help.

[jbryce]

He's probably past the point of no return. The bad thing is, particularly for recent years it seems to me, is that HMRC are now starting to calculate the tax as though your earnings are net of tax.

The thing is he should just get out of the scheme. It's bonkers to be in one now.

However, HMRC will not defeat all schemes just by simply stamping their feet. Some will have to go to the GAAR and be classed as avoidance, then APNs will follow and the rest we know about.

The GAAR isn't retrospective prior to 2013 (I think), but after that - any scheme ruled avoidance is f****ed. Before a scheme is dragged to the GAAR they will attempt to intimidate people into folding.

Avoidance isn't illegal, and in some instances in the past may have been effective - but really it's just not worth the grief. APNs followed by a lengthy trail through the courts may prove successful and some will have nothing to lose. Some may even win, but at what price?

Give me your mates address and I'll come round and show the lines on my face.

[TestMangler]

To elaborate that for the "mate" in question - this means you end up paying significantly more tax than you ever avoided - even factoring in fees paid to scheme promoters.

Can HMRC get away with this - well they can argue whatever figure they like for the APN - you don't have any judicial right of appeal. If he's really, really lucky, the scheme providers might take HMRC to court to prove their case and get the money back, but I wouldn't count on it.

If he's still deaf, after all this, then he's beyond help.

Appreciate the input, thanks.

If the "mate" was to imply that this is one of these "I've got this mate....." type scenarios, then it's not.

I've no idea when these kind of schemes even became popular. I certainly don't remember hearing about them until the early 2000's. I started contracting in the days when 'avoidance' meant umbrellas with ridiculous expense dispensations and you 'faxed your CV' to agents advertising in Freelance Informer I've been LTD since 1994

[porrker]

I see we have the usual it was mad to be in these schemes comments which doesnt really help....

If you are still in one of these schemes read the latest Finance act you will be clearly in trouble for this financial year....

HMRC are currently investigating the scheme for 12-13. It may lead to it been taken further it may not. We dont know yet and it would seem silly jumping the gun to admit liability to something HMRC have yet to challenge.

[thebear14]

Fully agree Porker, however the only reason I am contemplating a pro active settle is the fact it was only 5 months, I'm thankfully not on as serious a position as a number of people. I could opt to ride it out and hope it goes away however that would increase the interest due and probably increase the likelihood of a penalty on top.

[cojak]

Research Certificate of Tax Deposits (CTD)

https://www.gov.uk/certificate-of-tax-deposit-scheme

I don't know the details but this might help stopping interest payments. Someone else on the forum will be able to explain it.