Ukip posterboy suspended after claiming 'Miliband not British'

[xoggoth]

The bloody Eastern Europeans, coming over here offering skilled manual work in a 2nd language, bloody Eastern Europeans.
etc etc

Of course, going back a bit, the other slightly more obvious problem with this oft repeated tale of a "Britain of migrants" is that some major migrations you mention were disasters in terms of wars and conflicts. Do people who keep repeating this claptrap think that the Romans, Ancient Britons, Saxons, Normans, Vikings etc etc got along famously? Even the influx of Huguenots, a very successful and integrating group, was not without tensions.

Anyone looking impartially at the history of mass migration, in The UK or elsewhere, would conclude that we should stop doing it.

[Mich the Tester]

Anyone looking impartially at the history of mass migration, in The UK or elsewhere, would conclude that we should stop doing it.

Yes, it has its drawbacks. What do you propose we do to stop it? Can you show us which measures in Britain or anywhere else in Europe have ever succeeded in preventing migration, aside from great big walls?

[xoggoth]

Can you show us which measures in Britain or anywhere else in Europe have ever succeeded in preventing migration, aside from great big walls?

What are you talking about Mich? They may not be perfect but of course proper controls work. Illegals are only a small percentage of our total immigration. I don't recall we had current levels of EU migration until Labour stupidity/EU rules forced us to change the laws. The current high level of immigration is largely due to EU regulations and to the government failures to properly restrict visas from Commonwealth nations.

[Mich the Tester]

What are you talking about Mich? They may not be perfect but of course proper controls work. Illegals are only a small percentage of our total immigration. I don't recall we had current levels of EU migration until Labour stupidity/EU rules forced us to change the laws.

Labour's stupidity led to a big increase; not the stupidity of agreeing to free movement of workers (which the Tories had already done), but the utterly crass stupidity of removing the distinction between residence based and contribution based benefits, meaning that the UK has an extra pull factor; a social security system that is more accessible than those of other EU countries. This was not imposed by the EU, and indeed that distinction remains in most other EU countries; the Belgian government have just ordered 2000 Dutch citizens to leave because they're attempting to claim benefits for which they have not contributed.

Arguably they could have chosen to delay the free movement as Germany and France did, but they may have calculated that that would give them less negotiating room in the EU; I don't know.

But 'proper controls' are interesting; Britain has spent a lot of money on beefing up border checks in the last 20 years, including building bloody great barriers around the railway lines in northern France, and yet still the immigants come. The US has a great big wall along the border with Mexico, and still they've gone from an estimated 3 million undocumented Latin American migrants in the early 80s to 8 to 10 million now.

As for the English channel; tourists arrive on ships and trains and planes every day; are you going to question every single one of them about their intentions? Do you think every single car, truck, container or bus needs to be opened up and inspected?

[BigTime]

HD Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle S03E02 'England' - YouTube

From Peter Schiff's book, "blaming immigrants for unemployment is a distraction from the real drags on employment, which are regulations, taxes, and our messed-up monetary policy."

[xoggoth]

As for the English channel; tourists arrive on ships and trains and planes every day; are you going to question every single one of them about their intentions? Do you think every single car, truck, container or bus needs to be opened up and inspected?

Certainly border controls could be beefed up and, when you consider costs of tracking down and removing illegals once they are in the UK, it may well be cost effective to do so.

But, as I said, illegal immigration is not the major factor. Illegals in the UK are probably well under 1m compared to about 8m legals. Also, the two are not unrelated. It is the presence of those of their own ethnicity that draws people to the UK and it is mainly those of the same ethnicity who help to bring them in and support them. Most human traffickers and people smugglers are not white chaps called Smith or Jones and it is not some coincidence that, for example, when a Chinese restaurant is raided, the illegals are usually Chinese. Control legal immigration and you reduce illegal immigration.

[evilagent]

Of course, going back a bit, the other slightly more obvious problem with this oft repeated tale of a "Britain of migrants" is that some major migrations you mention were disasters in terms of wars and conflicts. Do people who keep repeating this claptrap think that the Romans, Ancient Britons, Saxons, Normans, Vikings etc etc got along famously? Even the influx of Huguenots, a very successful and integrating group, was not without tensions.

Anyone looking impartially at the history of mass migration, in The UK or elsewhere, would conclude that we should stop doing it.

Thats a very convenient standpoint, considering the mass migrations to North America (depriving the native americans of land and resources) and Australia (ditto aboriginals), as well as spanish migrations/invasions/conquests to south america.

Even so, it doesnt factor in the exploitation on foreign resources.
If the total UK population had to live on the UKs natural resources within its boundaries, well thats fine.
But it isnt fine to plunder poorer nations of minerals to give us our standard of living, whilst keeping them in poverty.

Equally, if we didnt import electricity, oil, gas, food from abroad, we wouldnt have much of a standard of living.

Anyway, all you lot came here from Mars on a piece of rock, so you can all bog off back to Mars, you freeloading immigrants.

[sasguru]

Isn't all this immigration malarkey a distraction from the real issues that face Britain though:

- an over powerful financial sector that has crippled the country with debts due to its bailout
- an unbalanced economy
- an overly socialistic approach to health, education and housing that lowers standards in all three to the lowest common denominator

I doubt that the number of immigrants, which is still below the European average, even after the 1 million Eastern Europeans, is causing the real problems we have.
However they are easy to blame for just about everybody from the current political establishment who have failed and newcomers who want to replace them.

[Hardgrafter]

The problem with that comparison is that some of the recent groups you mention, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Afro Caribbeans, are now among the lowest performers in our society.

What do you define as 'lowest performers'?

Do you mean economically? If so why is that a marker of 'performance in society?'

Are you attributing your defined 'low performance' as an inherent trait of said migrants or do you believe that environmental factors are in some part responsible?

It can be argued for example that the Windrush generation of Afro Caribbeans were instrumental in carrying Britain into post war prosperity by providing invaluable labour as porters, cleaners, drivers and nurses whilst facing low wages, high living costs and of course decades of continued racism & xenophobia.

My original post was a joke just to illustrate that for better or worse Britain is a country of migrants and our culture, language and everyday existence is born from thousands of years of immigration. The delusion of 'Englishness' or self entitlement just because you were born in a country is ever more confusing to me as we enter a globalised 21st century.

There was mass migration to Britain for thousands of years before you lived and there no doubt will be for thousands more after you're dead & forgotten so deal with it and enjoy being lucky enough to be born in a modern developed country where you can enjoy the food, drink, music, art, language and culture of others in a standard of living unequaled by any society in human history...

[xoggoth]

Isn't all this immigration malarkey a distraction from the real issues that face Britain though:
etc

Wouldn't say its a distraction, it is a significant factor but, as you point out, it is just one of several issues.

But then, if you look at the UKIP posters and major speeches, they are just as concerned with imposition of EU laws, regulations on business etc. and are not solely focused on immigration. It is those who oppose them that keep raising the profile of this one issue in order to brand UKIP as xenophobic etc.

Look at CUK. Over and over again we get threads on immigration and UKIP and who is posting most of them? It isn't me or the other righties on here. Bored with the whole thing TBH.