The Times predictable attack on Farage

[MicrosoftBob]

I didn't realise that National Socialism was a left wing ideal

How come the left doesn't have National Socialist ?

[hyperD]

How come the left doesn't have National Socialist ?

Historical airbrushing?

It's a meaningless graphic as it doesn't show how large state authoritarianism can distort all those individual platitudes. Left and right are meaningless monikers nowadays and simply divide opinions as a sleight of hand in the same way as those that tribally support different football teams.

[speling bee]

How come the left doesn't have National Socialist ?

National socialism is right wing.

[TykeMerc]

Please try harder...

FAIL

Hello (yet again) Russell. How long until this one is banned I wonder.

[darmstadt]

Instead of knocking the UKIP, here's some gormless young Tories:

“Nick Robinson, former Young Conservatives chairman and current BBC political editor, taking a selfie with some young Tories (Photo courtesy of theblueguerilla.co.uk).” Perhaps you’d like to dream up your own caption for this image of wild-eyed, slack-jawed decadence (he’s the political editor at the BBC and people still think it’s left-wing; the mind boggles).

Have some fun and read: Rise of the Tory Youth: Meeting Britain's Young Conservatives | VICE United Kingdom

[hyperD]

National socialism is right wing.

A common misconception propagated by the distortions I mentioned earlier.

The most common historical advocate that carries the banner of National Socialism is the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist German Workers' Party), formally originating from the Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, the German Workers' Party.

There's more here.

...Adolf Hitler and other proponents officially portrayed Nazism as being neither left- nor right-wing, but syncretic

So it's merely the vehicle to engage in opportunistic and extreme authoritarian action rather than the colour of the flag or the word "socialist" in their title that is the point here.

Hence my mention of the fact that the pointless throwing of lazy political pejoratives is merely distracting from the point of any political discussion if you don't mention the other main axis, which is the degree of authoritarian/libertarian slant that a party is encouraging and directly engaging in.

[Platypus]

I didn't realise that National Socialism was a left wing ideal

Left wing beliefs are usually progressive in nature, they look to the future, aim to support those who cannot support themselves, are idealist and believe in equality. People who are left wing believe in taxation to redistribute opportunity and wealth - things like a national health service, and job seeker’s allowance are fundamentally left wing ideas. They believe in equality over the freedom to fail.

Yes yes, in theory.

But your point was, the Left are less inclined to stifle democracy. Your diagram shows and proves nothing. My contention is that communist countries such as N.Korea, Russia, China, the Eastern Europe of 20 years ago, all these communist/socialist states were/are a lot less democratic than capitalist countries such as UK, USA, etc.

[darmstadt]

Yes yes, in theory.

But your point was, the Left are less inclined to stifle democracy. Your diagram shows and proves nothing. My contention is that communist countries such as N.Korea, Russia, China, the Eastern Europe of 20 years ago, all these communist/socialist states were/are a lot less democratic than capitalist countries such as UK, USA, etc.

They may well be less democratic and definitely were but if you look at the way the democratic countries are acting now, we're becoming more and more like them, all in the name of freedom. Everything you do now is being scrutinised, from walking down the street, going shopping, driving your car, browsing the Internet, everything. If anything the democratic countries probably know more about their citizens now than the communist countries did about theirs. They basically had to rely on other citizens snitching about each other whereas now its under the covers... When I talk about the left less inclined to stifle your freedoms then I'm mainly referring to the liberal left not a Marxist/Leninist left which had more in common with the extreme right wing. Even the Labour under Blair was not left in that they wholly supported laws to stifle free speech and action, they were more of a watered down right...

[hyperD]

They may well be less democratic and definitely were but if you look at the way the democratic countries are acting now, we're becoming more and more like them, all in the name of freedom. Everything you do now is being scrutinised, from walking down the street, going shopping, driving your car, browsing the Internet, everything. If anything the democratic countries probably know more about their citizens now than the communist countries did about theirs. They basically had to rely on other citizens snitching about each other whereas now its under the covers... When I talk about the left less inclined to stifle your freedoms then I'm mainly referring to the liberal left not a Marxist/Leninist left which had more in common with the extreme right wing. Even the Labour under Blair was not left in that they wholly supported laws to stifle free speech and action, they were more of a watered down right...

Whilst I agree with what you say, you still don't acknowledge the other more important axis of less and more state control, as depicted by the Nolan chart, rather than the left vs right mantra, as an example:



You should be colourblind when it comes to political activity.

[darmstadt]

My ones are slightly different which goes to show that no-one really agrees: