The Times predictable attack on Farage

[Mich the Tester]

But the EEA is stupid. In practice you are subject to most of EU economic regulations without having your say.

We said that a million times, you can't compare Britain with Switzerland or Norway. Besides, we have no gold left.

The EEA itself isn't stupid; it's an attempt to have an effective free trade zone with minimal political buggering about. The stupid bit is the direction the EU has taken, which was never going to be supported by the public in Europe. I say it can be reversed or reformed, some think that's impossible. Actually I think that given political developments in many EU countries, reform is inevitable.

[petergriffin]

The EEA itself isn't stupid; it's an attempt to have an effective free trade zone with minimal political buggering about. The stupid bit is the direction the EU has taken, which was never going to be supported by the public in Europe. I say it can be reversed or reformed, some think that's impossible. Actually I think that given political developments in many EU countries, reform is inevitable.

We need to resurrect the idea of a two-speed-Europe. One speed towards full political union (a supertstate) a fully democratically elected Government of Europe, the other a bit like the EEA on steroids.

20 years ago Britain and France opposed the idea because that would have given Germany too much power.

[Mich the Tester]

We need to resurrect the idea of a two-speed-Europe. One speed towards full political union (a supertstate) a fully democratically elected Government of Europe, the other a bit like the EEA on steroids.

20 years ago Britain and France opposed the idea because that would have given Germany too much power.

But that's just back to the same old binary crap of in/out. If some countries want to go part of the way or all the way to political union, then let them do that. If others want a sort of EEA on lots of steroids and an EEA on a bit of steroids, let them do that, but lay down some very basic principles that all share, like freedom of movement for goods, services and labour (not the same thing as free movement of benefit seekers).

[Flashman]

But that's just back to the same old binary crap of in/out. If some countries want to go part of the way or all the way to political union, then let them do that. If others want a sort of EEA on lots of steroids and an EEA on a bit of steroids, let them do that, but lay down some very basic principles that all share, like freedom of movement for goods, services and labour (not the same thing as free movement of benefit seekers).

You want to be outside the EU but without the 'same old binary crap in/out'

You want to be like Switzerland say but with a bit of the Schengen Agreement on top?

The only way to be like that is to leave the EU and then negotiate a package of agreements.

[Mich the Tester]

You want to be outside the EU but without the 'same old binary crap in/out'

You want to be like Switzerland say but with a bit of the Schengen Agreement on top?

The only way to be like that is to leave the EU and then negotiate a package of agreements.

No, I want Britain inside a reformed EU and I believe that can be achieved, much like CMD's intentions, and I think it will be easier to achieve that inside the EU than negotiating from outside. Why? Because I deal with people from continental EU countries every day and negotiate with them on business matters, have been doing so for 20 years and I think I have some understanding of how they think. Walking out and then coming back for a new deal just won't wash over here; staying in, supporting initiatives from others like the Dutch, the Germans on some subjects, the Danes, the Swedes and te like who want something similar and gaining their support for British initiatives; that works with continental Europeans much better than leaving in a huff.

As for Nigel Farage negotiating with the EU; forget it. Most influential people over here think he's an idiot and they'll laugh in his face. That doesn't mean I think he's an idiot, I just think he's wrong on this issue. They will, however, take David Cameron seriously, even if you think that's misguided.

[d000hg]

This thread proves a theory I've long held to be true:

The lower the IQ, the greater the propensity to believe in conspiracy theories.

That sounds like a conspiracy to me.

[doodab]

That sounds like a conspiracy to me.

It often seems like the idiots are conspiring against sanity. They seem to self organise almost like ants.