Give us your wonga to keep the NHS longer

[Ticktock]

Not sure, but its not like the US is (or was) - everyone gets treated.
It's just that their whole system is not centrally funded like ours.
Did you know it's pretty normal in a French hospital to get a room of your own?
Don't know how they do it.

They have more space for one thing. Almost 3 times the area, with nearly the same population. So lower population density means fewer patients in any one region to have to cram into a hospital.
I'd also presume that lower population density leads to lower land costs, allowing for larger hospitals with the space for separate rooms.

[d000hg]

We need to move to a system more like Germany and France - mostly insurance based. People seem to be much happier with the Health Services there and they seem to have better outcomes than the UK, particularly for diseases such as cancer - diagnosis is quicker and hence survival rates are higher.
A centrally funded system may work in smaller countries like Scandinavia but not in a large one like the UK.
Most people being complete morons though, changing the NHS is a political hot potato that no party can contemplate doing.

Speaking to people going out there, it's pretty expensive so there must be lots of poor people who cannot afford (or chose not to) it. What happens to them - can you get free insurance or are you out in the cold?

[sasguru]

Speaking to people going out there, it's pretty expensive so there must be lots of poor people who cannot afford (or chose not to) it. What happens to them - can you get free insurance or are you out in the cold?

Like I said I'm not sure - but a country like France is not the US.
It's a mixture of private/public partnerships - poor people are definitely treated for free.
Don't know if its still the case but WHO had France as the best health system in the world for many years.

I would be happy to copy either the French or German systems which seem to have high satisfaction ratings, are universal and seem to be more sustainable in the long run than ours. When I told my German relatives that I had to wait a week to see my GP they were horrified.

[vetran]

the French pay a nominal fee (about £10) to visit the GP. Appointments tend to be same day and generally its seen as better service than the NHS.

[kal]

the French pay a nominal fee (about £10) to visit the GP. Appointments tend to be same day and generally its seen as better service than the NHS.

I would pay that if I could ring up in the morning and see my GP the same day! Last time I rang up the earliest appointment they had was 4 days later, I would likely be better (or dead!) by then...

[VectraMan]

the French pay a nominal fee (about £10) to visit the GP. Appointments tend to be same day and generally its seen as better service than the NHS.

Yes, my Dad now lives in France, and he does say it's much better. I think it goes something like they pay for treatments, but then reclaim 80% of it, but treatment for chronic conditions is 100% reclaimable (this is as a retired or "poor" person). Of course being British, some or all of his healthcare is paid for by the NHS, but he gets the benefit of the much better French system. So if you're going to be sick, be British and move to France.

It's interesting that France, as a generally much more socialist country than us, doesn't see a big centrally paid for health system as workable.

I don't know about France, but I think I'm right in saying that in Germany and The Netherlands health insurance is deducted as part of you wages, which means most people don't have a choice in paying for health insurance, and then for the unemployed/retired it's paid for by the state. But then that is in effect a tax of the kind we're talking about here. But if it's insurance, does that mean the older/sicker you get the more you pay?

[sasguru]

It's interesting that France, as a generally much more socialist country than us, doesn't see a big centrally paid for health system as workable.

Quite - that is exactly my point.

I don't know about France, but I think I'm right in saying that in Germany and The Netherlands health insurance is deducted as part of you wages, which means most people don't have a choice in paying for health insurance, and then for the unemployed/retired it's paid for by the state. But then that is in effect a tax of the kind we're talking about here. But if it's insurance, does that mean the older/sicker you get the more you pay?

To answer your question, I don't think so. It's not like the US system (before Obamacare) where most bankruptcies were apparently due to paying for ill health.
The state still takes the strain but the efficiencies are due to not having a monolithic centrally-funded system with all its attendant bureaucracy.

[d000hg]

I would pay that if I could ring up in the morning and see my GP the same day! Last time I rang up the earliest appointment they had was 4 days later, I would likely be better (or dead!) by then...

Move north.

[sasguru]

Move north.

Does Staffordshire count as north?

[VectraMan]

To answer your question, I don't think so. It's not like the US system (before Obamacare) where most bankruptcies were apparently due to paying for ill health.
The state still takes the strain but the efficiencies are due to not having a monolithic centrally-funded system with all its attendant bureaucracy.

The Wiki page:

Health care in France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Makes for interesting reading. It's quite similar to the NHS in reality, the big big difference being that the state-run insurance fund doesn't attempt to pay for everything. People pay for treatment (€23 to see a GP,) but then reclaim at least 70%, rising to 100% for chronic or more serious illnesses. And the fees are tightly controlled by the state, so no $50K bills for an appendix operation like in the US. And that's for everybody.

So I guess if you're unemployed you still have to pay €6 to see a GP, but don't have to pay for health insurance.

The problem here is that any suggestion of payment for healthcare gets portrayed as an attack on the poor, or the welfare state, or as part of a big right-wing elitist conspiracy and becomes a major political issue (even though we already pay for prescriptions, and indeed parking at hospitals). Whereas clearly having a small fee works pretty well for the French, doesn't appear to cause terrible harm to the poor or anyone else, and more importantly makes the standard of care much higher.