NEXIT. Netherlands a Trillion £ better off outside the EU.

[darmstadt]

Well that report is a bunch of old bollocks isn't it. The report was commissioned by the Freedom Party, led by one Geert Wilders who is a cross between Adolf, Farage, the BNP, Alf Garnett and Outraged of Tunbridge Wells. The report was created by the well known anti-EU firm Capital Economics:

Capital Economics is an economic research consultancy based in London. In 2012 it won the Wolfson Economics Prize for the best proposal on how the Eurozone could be safely dismantled.

Which in turn is headed/founded by one Roger Bootle who is not only a Eurosceptic but just also happens to be a columnist for the Daily Telegraph, bet that wasn't mentioned in the article. Bunch of cockwombles


(I'm sure Mich could explain Wilders better than me but just for fun, Google him)

[alluvial]

With more taxes collected per head in Scotland than anywhere else in the UK it'll be nice for this cash to remain in the country were it was generated.

Sounds like the same arithmetic that means that Britain has more tornadoes per sq mile than the USA (or anywhere else for that matter).

[Zero Liability]

Well that report is a bunch of old bollocks isn't it. The report was commissioned by the Freedom Party, led by one Geert Wilders who is a cross between Adolf, Farage, the BNP, Alf Garnett and Outraged of Tunbridge Wells. The report was created by the well known anti-EU firm Capital Economics:



Which in turn is headed/founded by one Roger Bootle who is not only a Eurosceptic but just also happens to be a columnist for the Daily Telegraph, bet that wasn't mentioned in the article. Bunch of cockwombles


(I'm sure Mich could explain Wilders better than me but just for fun, Google him)

Do you have any actual objections relating to the contents of the report, rather than trying to tarnish it by alluding to its source?

[darmstadt]

Do you have any actual objections relating to the contents of the report, rather than trying to tarnish it by alluding to its source?

I'm currently reading but really, its like Microsoft commissioning Gartner to do a report stating that Windows is the future, basically self publicising. Now if the report had been undertaken by a truly independant firm then it may have some credence but as both parties are anti-EU then that basically makes it a sham. BTW, this is taken from the Freedom Party manifesto:

- Considerable reduction of taxes and state regulations.
- Replacement of the present Article 1 of the Dutch constitution, guaranteeing equality under the law, by a clause stating the cultural dominance of the Christian, Jewish and humanist traditions.
- Reduction of the influence of the European Union, which may no longer be expanded with new member states, especially Turkey; the European Parliament will be abolished. Dutch financial contributions to the European Union should be reduced by billions of euros.
- A five-year moratorium on the immigration of non-Western foreigners who intend to stay in the Netherlands. Foreign residents will no longer have the right to vote in municipal elections.
- A five-year moratorium on the founding of new mosques and Islamic schools; a permanent ban on preaching in any language other than Dutch. Foreign imams will not be allowed to preach. Radical mosques will be closed and radical Muslims will be expelled.
- Restoration of educational standards, with an emphasis on the educational value of the family.
- Introduction of binding referenda and elected mayors, chiefs of police and prime ministers.
- Introduction of minimum penalties, and higher maximum penalties; introduction of administrative detention for terrorist suspects. Street terrorism will be punished by boot camps and denaturalisation and deportation of immigrant offenders.
- Restoration of respect and better rewards for teachers, policemen, health care workers and military personnel.
- Instead of complicated reorganisation, a more accessible and humane health care system, especially for elderly citizens

[Zero Liability]

I understand that, however if there's any errors with the report, rather the focus be on that than who issued it. I mean you could dismiss pro-EU reports (or pro-Union ones, in the case of the UK) on the grounds that the EU and its member governments (and their direct beneficiaries) on the same grounds, but I don't think it really advances our understanding much.

The thing with any of these reports is that they will be predictive in nature, no matter which side they take. So we're really arguing the plausibility of a number of assumptions.

[darmstadt]

I understand that, however if there's any errors with the report, rather the focus be on that than who issued it. I mean you could dismiss pro-EU reports (or pro-Union ones, in the case of the UK) on the grounds that the EU and its member governments (and their direct beneficiaries) on the same grounds, but I don't think it really advances our understanding much.

The thing with any of these reports is that they will be predictive in nature, no matter which side they take. So we're really arguing the plausibility of a number of assumptions.

Oh, I agree. I take most reports with a big pinch of salt but there are people out there who will swear blind that it's the holy truth and some of those people are the media who will use it it to ply their own agenda. Even the disclaimer makes you want to say, rubbish:

While every effort has been made to ensure that the data quoted and used for the research behind this document is
reliable, there is no guarantee that it is correct, and Capital Economics Limited and its subsidiaries can accept no
liability whatsoever in respect of any errors or omissions.

[Brussels Slumdog]

Those figures are crazy. The Netherlands is a core member of the EU and being on the mainland of Europe is naturally more integrated with its neighbours.



If those figures are correct about leaving and it is a pretty well argued case. Wow.

These figures assume that the Dutch obtain the same status as Switzerland. UKIP makes the same assumption. No country except Greenland has left the EU so how can anyone predict what the outcome will be by leaving according to clause 50 of the Lisbon treaty. Being in the EU Is like being in the army , the EU will determine your exit terms not the UK or the Netherlands

[darmstadt]

These figures assume that the Dutch obtain the same status as Switzerland. UKIP makes the same assumption. No country except Greenland has left the EU so how can anyone predict what the outcome will be by leaving according to clause 50 of the Lisbon treaty. Being in the EU Is like being in the army , the EU will determine your exit terms not the UK or the Netherlands

It would also take them until 2035 to get the same status as Switzerland if they exited now. BTW, Algeria left the EEC when it gained independence from France

[NickFitz]

WW1 and WW2 proved that wars get nobody in Europe anywhere.

"The War to End All Wars: so good, they fought it twice."

[Zero Liability]

These figures assume that the Dutch obtain the same status as Switzerland. UKIP makes the same assumption. No country except Greenland has left the EU so how can anyone predict what the outcome will be by leaving according to clause 50 of the Lisbon treaty. Being in the EU Is like being in the army , the EU will determine your exit terms not the UK or the Netherlands

I actually sympathise with many of the goals behind the EEC as a free trade zone, the Euro (particularly as a hard currency, restraining member states from just devaluing wily-nilly) and aspects of the ECHR. The EU has gone far beyond all that, however.

Conversely, how can anyone predict how much leverage the EU will possess in stopping member states from leaving, particularly economic powerhouses like the UK? Although the German government is behind the EU project, the electorate is fed up of subsidising southern Europe (and subsidise it they did, particularly the recent boom in the south) and then being scorned for it. All around, support for the EU is tepid, at best. I mean why shoot themselves in the foot by ceasing to trade with countries like the UK? They retain the benefit of remaining entangled in a union of shared values and such, and the UK leaving will not end this, so what is this obsession with keeping the UK in, when it isn't a very eager team player to begin with? I don't get it. That it sets a precedent?

My only worry is that British politicians will not change their tune even if the UK were to leave the EU. It'd still be the same mentality of max out the govt credit cards and spend, spend, spend, and fork the future generations with the bill, but I scarcely see the EU as offering much salvation from that formula, which is prevalent in nearly all governments. If the ECB were like the Bundesbank of old, I'd say ditch the £ and go for the Euro, but it isn't.