NEXIT. Netherlands a Trillion £ better off outside the EU.

[scooterscot]

I take the complete opposite view. The euro crisis has shown the complete contempt the North Europeans have for the bankrupt Greeks and in return there is a lot of hate for the Germans in Greece. There is no such thing as the European people..

The same can be said of the Americans. I've travelled to many parts of the US, and found people in the north to be completely different from those in the south (well that goes without saying).

Why is the $ not split up?

Why are states in the $ union allowed to go bankrupt without impacting the currency? Federalism is clearly not working for the man on the street.

[Mich the Tester]

I take the complete opposite view. The euro crisis has shown the complete contempt the North Europeans have for the bankrupt Greeks and in return there is a lot of hate for the Germans in Greece. There is no such thing as the European people.

Following that argument there is no such thing as the English people. There's a lot of contempt for the southern English in places like Liverpool and the midlands where industries have died, or in places where the mines closed.

[Gittins Gal]

.

Why create so much hassle and when something much better than 'in or out' could well be negotiated?

Ok, so Cameron's plan is to renegotiate our relationship with Europe and then hold a plebiscite in 2017 on our continuing membership of the EU under this new relationship.

The problem is that it is patently obvious that no re-negotiation is going to take place in that timescale. It will mean drafting a new treaty and getting all the EU member states to ratify this treaty. A number of EU chiefs have made this quite clear and Francois Hollande reiterated it last week.

So, to extrapolate from this, I'm guessing there will be no referendum (because labour and lib dems are blocking the legislation) and there will be no new relationship for us to vote on.

But I guess Dave has known this all along

[Ticktock]

Why create so much hassle and when something much better than 'in or out' could well be negotiated?

So take the current treaties and shake them all about?

[Mich the Tester]

Ok, so Cameron's plan is to renegotiate our relationship with Europe and then hold a plebiscite in 2017 on our continuing membership of the EU under this new relationship.

The problem is that it is patently obvious that no re-negotiation is going to take place in that timescale. It will mean drafting a new treaty and getting all the EU member states to ratify this treaty. A number of EU chiefs have made this quite clear and Francois Hollande reiterated it last week.

Francois Hollande has about as much credibility now as a dogturd and France doesn't have any money anyway. The real influence is in Germany, NL, Belgium, Denmark and the Scandinavians because they pay the bills. Convince the Germans and you'll get what you want and the French will have to live with it, whatever it says in the treaty.

[Mich the Tester]

So take the current treaties and shake them all about?

Yes.

I will set up the Hokey Cokey Party to contest the elections.

[Gittins Gal]

Francois Hollande has about as much credibility now as a dogturd and France doesn't have any money anyway. The real influence is in Germany, NL, Belgium, Denmark and the Scandinavians because they pay the bills. Convince the Germans and you'll get what you want and the French will have to live with it, whatever it says in the treaty.

Hmmm very democratic...

They may just as well have won the war

[Mich the Tester]

Hmmm very democratic...

They may just as well have won the war

It's realpolitik. Winston Churchill was good at it.

[MicrosoftBob]

all those EU naysers can hardly deny Scotland will indeed be better off outside the UK?

It depends how much you expect the EU to subsidise Scotland incomparison to the Barnet formula

[scooterscot]

It depends how much you expect the EU to subsidise Scotland incomparison to the Barnet formula

With more taxes collected per head in Scotland than anywhere else in the UK it'll be nice for this cash to remain in the country were it was generated.