Another Zionist Actress - quits supporting Oxfam

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

So you agree, that the Israelis are not there illegally.

Now. Who had the land before the Israelis. Jordan, Syria, Egypt. Did the Palestinians have their own land then? No. It belonged to Jordan, Syria and Egypt. And who owned it before then? The British and the French. Before then the Ottoman Empire...

So, when did the Palestinians own the land that was allegedly stolen from them? Never. And if they didn't own it, then it can't have been stolen, can it?

Of course, there were Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians living in those areas, who were told to get out (by the Jordanian, Syrian and Egyptian) armies, for a little while, just until the infidels were slaughtered... Unfortunately, the infidels didn't get slaughtered - their attackers did. Those Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians who stayed put got Israeli citizenship and retains their land.

Now, it can certainly be argued that those who legged it, and then found their land gone have been treated pretty harshly. But from the point of view of those who were attacked without provocation, you can understand why they don't have much sympathy.

If Israel disappeared tomorrow, the Palestinians still wouldn't get their own land, because Jordan, Syria and Egypt will take it.

That's why I feel sorry for the Palestinians. There in a no-win situation, and will only get poorer and poorer, which is why I support Palestinians families on the ground through those charities that don't get involved in politics, but prefer to deal with people in need.

The only real solution to the problem is a country where all are equal in a state which doesn't look at religion or race. Something similar to what we have here. The reality is that will never happen and so Palestinians will continue to be terrorised by the Israelis giving more ammunition to the nut jobs at Al Qaeda.

[NotAllThere]

Ignorance is core to religion. Otherwise it'd be called philosophy.

Said SponteneousOrder revealing once again the depth of his ignorance of religion.

[NotAllThere]

The only real solution to the problem is a country where all are equal in a state which doesn't look at religion or race...

That won't happen even if Israel disappears. Look at the current governance of the Palestinian controlled territories. Christian Arabs, who used to be a sizable minority have been driven out. Extremists take control. Lovely.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Ok I agree with what you define as religion - the way man has converted into something other than the truth it originally was. That kind of religion is utter bullsh*t. My definition of religion the continuous enquiry into truth and not following something blindly and just accepting it. Anything that is not continuously evolving and advancing is not religion in my view of the world.

Ok, fine. That sounds like an odd definition to me though.
Is believing in God not core to Judaism though?

[SpontaneousOrder]

Said SponteneousOrder revealing once again the depth of his ignorance of religion.

Name me a single religion that doesn't have ignorance in it's core.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

That won't happen even if Israel disappears. Look at the current governance of the Palestinian controlled territories. Christian Arabs, who used to be a sizable minority have been driven out. Extremists take control. Lovely.

I think the violent/extreme nature of a significant proportion of the population of Palestinians is a consequence of decades of suffering which would do the same to any population. I am an optimist and believe that hypothetically this could be changed by many decades of good will. I am pessimistic about the Israelis doing this in their current state - they are big, powerful, arrogant and don't give two hoots about the Palestinians. If something changes then maybe there is hope, while the status quo stays there is none, I agree.

[vetran]

I was with you up to this point. Now you're talking utter tulip.

I think its like analysing a virus or disease some are more efficient than others. So plus points are it builds strong family and religion specific society cohesion and has sensible ideas about infection and long term means of furthering the religion (mainly by reproduction). So compared to other religions its effective.

Whether you believe in it or not you have to admire its mechanisms. a bit like Bubonic plague which whups something like HIV on the top trumps style scale, yet Malaria has to be the winner.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Name me a single religion that doesn't have ignorance in it's core.

Ok so if you believe there is a God out there then obviously there must be a religion out there which asks you to constantly challenge yourself, ask questions and advance. That is the true religion in my view. Labels of Islam, Christianity and Judaism mean nothing within that framework, it is rather a devotion to continuous growth and advancement that is the real religion - wherever that leads you to should be the real religion provided it does not then cause you to stagnate.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Ok so if you believe there is a God out there

Why would a person who embraced reason believe that?

[NotAllThere]

The trouble is that much of what passes for information about the conflict is political bulltulip - the same lies passed around for years and years. So I concentrate on individuals and how they live. No-one with any grasp of reality would deny that the Palestinians have a pretty tough time, with a fair proportion of the reasons for it firmly layable at the door of Israeli politics.

I know an Israeli and a Palestinian who are good friends. They organise trips into the desert for Israeli and Palestinian youths, so that they can break down the barriers of hate. The organisers get many death threats, but they're motivated by their ignorance ... sorry, their religion to do this.