Shocking immigration hysteria

[vetran]

It's not unprecedented now; it's been 10 years since the Poles gained the same rights and some 1 million of them turned up. And honestly, how bad has it been? Has the country been bankrupted by the big increase in welfare payments? Has the NHS and school system collapsed? Did unemployment shoot up as they took all the jobs of good old hard working Brits?

It's just like the global warming alarmists. Trying to spread hysteria whilst ignoring that reality has already proved them wrong.

Yes but we were right, 1 million plus turned up, something everyone was denying was going to happen.

With them many problems came. Some have been sorted out but there are serious issues with school availability in some areas.
http://www.slough.gov.uk/moderngov/d...%202011.03.pdf

Doctor surgeries & Dentists are oversubscribed.

Crime is harder to Police

Immigration and crime: the real results – Telegraph Blogs

To be honest my experience individually has been mostly positive. The sheer number and the lack of planning is the issue.

1.3 of 1.5 million jobs created were taken by immigrants? Would we have a much lower level of unemployment if these people hadn't arrived? Can only people willing to work for 7 times their national average wage be hard working?

[VectraMan]

With them many problems came. Some have been sorted out but there are serious issues with school availability in some areas.
http://www.slough.gov.uk/moderngov/d...%202011.03.pdf

Doctor surgeries & Dentists are oversubscribed.

And none of these problems existed beforehand? I remember moving to Worcester in the mid 90s and having to ring round about 10 different doctors' surgeries until I found one that was taking new patients. And I've never had an NHS dentist, because for a long time they were impossible to find and I could never be arsed to queue at 6am as was often the case.

To be honest my experience individually has been mostly positive. The sheer number and the lack of planning is the issue.

I'll accept the biggest issue is the transition. Common sense would dictate having a phased introduction over a number of years, rather than going from zero to unlimited on one date. But I don't think that would make the UKIPers happy.

[vetran]

Someone born here isn't a migrant. And like all children they become adults and contribute to society (well most children). Why should the children of working, tax paying migrants not be entitled to an education?

Well if they intend to only be here for 5 years and return to their home country with enough money to become wealthy which many have stated and commentators are reporting then the cost of educating their young is lost money. The cost of education is born by the whole community and most families take out more than they put in while the children are young. When they grow up and start paying tax with the other 60 years of their life is when we get pay back.

As frequently stated they take the jobs the lazy brits don't want (i.e. the low paid ones) they probably won't pay much tax.

IGRORANCE

People from other countries are more likely to be criminals? Again prejudice.

unfortunately the FACT we imprison more suggests that its not predjudice, the costs (as Xoggy pointed out) are higher for many reasons : language barrier, lack of fixed abode, different type of crime (assault or murder is far more expensive to detect and prosecute than a speeding ticket).


Again IGRORANCE

I'll give you that one. Must be a nightmare for teachers.

What about all the British expats sending their money abroad?

What from other countries - that's their problem.

Are they in poorer health?

Statistically certain groups of immigrants are, many do take advantage of our free health care system when their own costs them significant money.

Also illnesses we have control over in the UK population are much more common among immigrants.

An action plan for tuberculosis in England

Again IGRORANCE

Nobody's talking about illegal immigration. That has no relevance to this discussion.

Aren't we? how can you not discuss illegal immigration as it is effectively hidden by uncontrolled immigration? If the bad effects we are seeing are due to purely illegal immigration then lets establish that and deal with it.

[xoggoth]

Which comes down to how many people work and contribute, vs. how many people scrounge (including legitimate scroungers like the elderly). So importing more hard working younger people (as immigrants tend to be) whilst sending our old people off to live in Spain or France can only be good.

If the elderly have paid for their pensions and health care by large amounts of tax/NI during their lifetimes it is ludicrous to call it scrounging. Makes as much sense as calling somebody a scrounger if he claims on his insurance.

As for the real scroungers we need to address and solve our society's problems, whether welfare, poor education or whatever. If we do not, migrants are going to be just as lazy in a generation, what do you do then? The reality anyway is that it is not the white British at the bottom of the heap but descendants of our previous migrants, only the Chinese and Indians actually do better than average.

It is utterly absurd to say that the consequence of immigration are nothing to do with immigration. Granted we should treat all citizens the same regardless of origin but that does not mean we should keep repeating the same error of admitting people from nations from which previous migrants have not succeeded.

As for suggestions of high crime being prejudice you must like to live in a dreamworld of ignorance. I'm not asking you to read the Daily Mail, just try checking the realities from reputable, mostly government sources, Home office reports, police reports etc.

PS A major consequence of legal immigration is illegal immigration, the 2nd drives the first, and no matter how useful the original migrants may be, sooner or later you will get less desirable elements for all the obvious reasons. In the wake of the decision to allow in the Ghurkhas for example, the Home Office had to suspend student visa applications from Nepal due to a huge spike of questionable applications. Are you seriously arguing that, in setting policy, governments should ignore the consequences of that policy?

[darmstadt]

To all those complaining, you do realise that you can go to Romania, Bulgaria, etc. and claim benefits, work, be a health tourist, etc. there...

[scooterscot]

To all those complaining, you do realise that you can go to Romania, Bulgaria, etc. and claim benefits, work, be a health tourist, etc. there...

Lets go...

[vetran]

To all those complaining, you do realise that you can go to Romania, Bulgaria, etc. and claim benefits, work, be a health tourist, etc. there...

what and have the posters of ContractorBulgaria moan about expensive brits coming over there and taking their jobs??

[darmstadt]

what and have the posters of ContractorBulgaria moan about expensive brits coming over there and taking their jobs??

I actually got called towards the end of last year about a contract there. A very large bank have a very large datacenter out there and were looking for someone with, mainly, my skills. If I hadn't of already accepted my extension I might well have taken it. The previous contract I did, we had a lot of developers in Bulgaria who were pretty tulip hot and I work heavily with a product which is also developed over in eastern Europe and ain't too bad either. I've worked a few times over in Eastern Europe and found it pretty good place to work.

[vetran]

I actually got called towards the end of last year about a contract there. A very large bank have a very large datacenter out there and were looking for someone with, mainly, my skills. If I hadn't of already accepted my extension I might well have taken it. The previous contract I did, we had a lot of developers in Bulgaria who were pretty tulip hot and I work heavily with a product which is also developed over in eastern Europe and ain't too bad either. I've worked a few times over in Eastern Europe and found it pretty good place to work.

Precisely the point, high value migrants are to be valued and invited around the world. Exploiting poor countries to drive down the wages in rich countries is probably bad.

[xoggoth]

Many on here seem to be making exactly the same silly generalisations that they accuse the Daily Mail of making, lauding some useful migrants and suggesting that is an argument in favour of them all. Makes no more sense than having stories of thieves and beggars and suggesting all migrants are like that.

I will make one more attempt to make the relevant points in VERY SIMPLE TERMS and then I will give up on you unthinking, emotion driven, illogical lot. (How some of you succeed in IT I have no idea)

1) Most of us are not against immigration, we simply want proper controls that only let in those who really are useful, as other countries not in the EU do. Can you please explain why we should have open borders for large numbers with no jobs to come to, no major professional skills and few if any checks on their backgrounds.

2) It is sensible policy to take full account of ALL effects on the rest of us, of which shortage of school places is just one example. Please explain why you think ordinary people should have to ignore adverse consequences to them when they see no measurable benefit.

3) How does this quick fix (even assuming it was a fix) of migrants to real problems of an ageing population, welfare mentality etc make any long term sense? Migrants will get old too, migrants handed benefits will get lazy too. How long can you go on expanding the population and never addressing the real problems?