Shocking immigration hysteria

[SimonMac]

[KentPhilip]

OK interesting.

How would you respond to my assertion that a vote for UKIP simply splits the Tory vote thereby letting Labour in. My assumption being that you don't want Labour in and would prefer the Tories to Labour.

Because let's be honest, with our FPP system, every vote doesn't count so tactical voting is important.

I might be tempted to vote UKIP in the EU elections to give Cameron a bloody nose, but not in a general election. That would be crazy!

UKIP attracts almost as many former labour voters as it does former tories, so that assertion is not valid. There are many northern seats with sitting labour MPs who are under serious threat for two reasons. First that the white working class (traditional Labour voters) have had many of their jobs pinched by the immigrants, and second that some of the immigrants living in predominantly Labour areas don't have a tradition of voting Labour, so they choose their parties according to their own political beliefs - some of them are UKIP (yes the party has some asians on board).

You can vote for UKIP in the general election without leading to a Labour government. You might just get a UKIP government or at least UKIP in coalition.

[GB9]

This lot are unfortunately suffering as a result of the last 8 countries to be given the right to come in. Of the 1.5m jobs created under the last Labour government, 1.3m went to immigrants. Plus who knows how many Bobs coming in under dodgy visas.

It always makes me laugh when I hear the pro-lobby stating that they 'contribute £x billions to the economy'. How do they do that exactly?

[vetran]

You aware of the phrase 2 wrongs don't make a right?

However I see your 0.3 Billion and raise you 2 Billion. Check the figures they come from a rabble rousing right wing newspaper.

Temporary migrants cost NHS up to £2bn a year, says study | UK news | The Guardian


You know the British have been moving to Spain since the 1970s? Mostly to retire, many have had their houses and life savings stolen by corrupt councils and dishonest builders. I doubt they are offered social housing.

Apparently the Spanish in the UK are coming close to the same number with an 85% increase in immigration 2011.

Spanish Immigration to the UK up 85%: What This Means for Payments Abroad -- LONDON, September 14, 2011 /PRNewswire/ --

One assumes they are paying for their care in the UK?

So your point is?

[VectraMan]

We would not get "hysteria" if legitimate concerns were addressed. People who make these silly comments about "the UK being a nation of immigrants" do not seem to appreciate that the current scale of immigration is quite unprecedented, nothing we have had before comes close.

It's not unprecedented now; it's been 10 years since the Poles gained the same rights and some 1 million of them turned up. And honestly, how bad has it been? Has the country been bankrupted by the big increase in welfare payments? Has the NHS and school system collapsed? Did unemployment shoot up as they took all the jobs of good old hard working Brits?

It's just like the global warming alarmists. Trying to spread hysteria whilst ignoring that reality has already proved them wrong.

[vetran]

It always makes me laugh when I hear the pro-lobby stating that they 'contribute £x billions to the economy'. How do they do that exactly?

They add up the amount of income tax paid by the new entrants, throw in the amount the foreign super rich bring in and then count that as a gain.

They however ignore any tax credits, benefits and social costs from the locals being displaced or the different status the immigrants have (e.g. WFTC eligibility or social housing eligibility).

If you compare me to a chap in Africa I'm rich beyond his wildest dreams, if you compare me to Richard Branson I'm not that well off. Pick your figures to support your argument.

[xoggoth]

'contribute £x billions to the economy'. How do they do that exactly?

They do contribute to the economy but you could expand the GDP by 10% if we annexed Greece and called it part of the UK. How would that benefit our own citizens financially? They wouldn't be any richer. At least Greece has all its own land etc, unlike migrants who are sharing our overstretched resources.

It's GDP per capita and quality of life of the existing population that matters.

[xoggoth]

These "studies" (those that provide any details) also exclude or ignore cost of schooling migrant children who are borne here, cost of tackling crime and cultural problems, translation, loss to the UK economy of money sent abroad, poorer health of migrants, costs of illegal immigration and trafficking and even then come up with hilariously low figures, typically a net gain of 0.5%-1% of GDP in return for a 13% expansion in population. Read the 2007 Home Office report, it's hilarious in its idiocy.

[VectraMan]

It's GDP per capita and quality of life of the existing population that matters.

Which comes down to how many people work and contribute, vs. how many people scrounge (including legitimate scroungers like the elderly). So importing more hard working younger people (as immigrants tend to be) whilst sending our old people off to live in Spain or France can only be good.

Surely that's patently obvious to all; it's only the idea that immigrants are inferior and only want to come here because of the free handouts that scuppers it. And the only place that can come from is prejudice.

[VectraMan]

These "studies" (those that provide any details) also exclude or ignore cost of schooling migrant children who are borne here

Someone born here isn't a migrant. And like all children they become adults and contribute to society (well most children). Why should the children of working, tax paying migrants not be entitled to an education?

cost of tackling crime

People from other countries are more likely to be criminals? Again prejudice.

translation

I'll give you that one. Must be a nightmare for teachers.

loss to the UK economy of money sent abroad

What about all the British expats sending their money abroad?

poorer health of migrants

Are they in poorer health?

costs of illegal immigration and trafficking

Nobody's talking about illegal immigration. That has no relevance to this discussion.