It's the (possible) end of the world as we know it.

[Mich the Tester]

Are we making our living through our own labour, or is our living derived from the surplus value of the labour of others which we control via our ownership of capital?

The means of production in our time is knowledge. We are workers who have taken the means of production into our own hands and rent it out at a price we find acceptable while mocking the managermen. Effectively we're Marxists and that's why self-professed tories hate us.

[tomtomagain]

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

The demand is not going to go away. (Real) businesses will still need to temporarily hire programmers, project managers, testers. They sure as hell aren't going to want to suddenly start employing them full-time. And most big co's are already Bobbed to the hilt.

So an acceptable contracting mechanism will be found.

Could be best thing in a decade to happen to contracting.

Fixed price projects anyone? Work offsite at your local office the "norm"?

[Mich the Tester]

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

The demand is not going to go away. (Real) businesses will still need to temporarily hire programmers, project managers, testers. They sure as hell aren't going to want to suddenly start employing them full-time. And most big co's are already Bobbed to the hilt.

So an acceptable contracting mechanism will be found.

Could be best thing in a decade to happen to contracting.

Fixed price projects anyone? Work offsite at your local office the "norm"?

Yep, that's the key, an acceptable mechanism. And remember, we're a lot brainier than most of the feckwhits at the tax office and Whitehall.

[Zero Liability]

The means of production in our time is knowledge. We are workers who have taken the means of production into our own hands and rent it out at a price we find acceptable while mocking the managermen. Effectively we're Marxists and that's why self-professed tories hate us.

Don't think this is confined to the Tories, Labour seem to have similarly sinister plans for freelancers. Both pretend to be for "small" business whilst bemoaning larger businesses, but in the end all are free game to them. Larger firms just have more means to defend themselves, and I think the government is insightful enough to realise these firms aren't obliged to do business here and can pack up and leave if they don't like the terms of it, whereas contractors and the employed public have lesser scope to do so, thus the various contrivances to ignore contracts utilised within the boundaries of the law to ensure NI is charged, irrespective of any justification for this rather peculiar form of tax.

For all this blather about a recovery, the economy will suffer a hit if it loses the flexibility contractors bring, and TBH, I suspect we know better how to use our money than the government does once it has its greedy paws on it.

[tomtomagain]

The worst case scenario is that running a PSC becomes completely pointless and everyone ends up effectively on PAYE through an agency/umbrella.

Of course being an "On Demand" or highly skilled worker requires a premium over a "permanently employed" worker.

So in a competitive sellers market you should be able to command a decent mark-up over a long-term employee and of course when the market conditions favour the buyer you'll be bidding your skills for less than a long-termer. Same as always.

What we need to do is to get HMRC to look at all these Bob Consultancies. They pay their staff in India, pay their accommodation in the UK and a "per Diem" allowance whilst they are in the UK so that they don't pay any tax in the UK at all. Either as a corporate ( obviously the UK arm is "buying" services from the Indian arm at a big mark up ) or on a personal level.

[d000hg]

We barely have an acceptable method at the moment, it pushes you into using artificial means and confuses people into thinking they're running a business rather than simply trading through a company.

I think government are pro small business, but they don't view contractors AS small businesses, rather as a whole separate thing.

[d000hg]

The worst case scenario is that running a PSC becomes completely pointless and everyone ends up effectively on PAYE through an agency/umbrella.

Of course being an "On Demand" or highly skilled worker requires a premium over a "permanently employed" worker.

It already gets a premium, it's called £400+/day

[Zero Liability]

We are businesses. We assume nearly all of the risks they do. Maybe our client pipeline is more regular or secure, but you could say the same of many firms with secure, established clienteles, or the government as their biggest client.

[tomtomagain]

It already gets a premium, it's called £400+/day

Exactly. And if you are forced through PAYE it will be £500PPD

[tomtomagain]

We are businesses. We assume nearly all of the risks they do.

No you don't. Not by a long shot.

A contractor has a very low risk profile.

If you think you assume the same level as risk as the businesses you are contracting for either you only work for really small companies or don't understand risk!