Bring back John Major

[Old Greg]

If contractors want to remain in the top one percent of the worlds richest people then I hope he can vote. For the rest of you hypocrites who seem so eager to sign away your ill gotten status I suggest you keep away from polling booths

Don't get me wrong. I'm completely against the EU as it exists to protect bourgeois capitalist power structures.

[sasguru]

What starts off as "good intentions" - i.e human rights, and all the rest was because it showed that socialism "only works" if it is made to.

Eh? Talk English, boy.
You're rambling like an idiot.

[KentPhilip]

So the USSR was capitalist, since they had no human rights, no benefits for migrants (let alone their own people), killed millions and polluted the environment?

PS. You were lying weren't you? You never did get into Cambridge. Or the don who took you was drunk.

But they did have human rights - every soviet citizen was given a job, hence they earned a wage and were thus "looked after". Until they were sent to the gulag that is (or Siberia)

Actually my college personal tutor was fond of a sherry or three

2 The EU only states that people must have equal access to contribution based welfare systems. Britain rather stupidly goes further and gives everyone the right to non contribution based benefits, which it doesn't have to do and most EU countries don't. In fact, if I try to get 'bijstand' in NL I can be deemed to be living off the state and ordered to leave, and the EU will do nothing to prevent that.

Well that is a start I guess. But this would imply that Cameron is offering more benefits that he needs to under european rules. I find that hard to believe - he's a tory! (or he was one)

4 Most political parties do that regardless of their position on the EU, but the EU does not dictate to people what they believe or don't believe. Anyway, what have scientific disagreements to do with socialism and capitalism?

Because global warming is a good excuse for them to inhibit industrial activity and controlling the rich with higher taxes and regulation - something all socialists love to do.


Regardless of debate, the point is there is nothing the European union can do for us (the UK) that we cannot do for ourselves. It offers no benefits, and can therefore only provide risk, and trouble.

[DodgyAgent]

Don't get me wrong. I'm completely against the EU as it exists to protect people like me.

FTFY

[Mich the Tester]

What starts off as "good intentions" - i.e human rights, and all the rest was because it showed that socialism "only works" if it is made to.

I get it. Churchill was a closet socialist! And Adenauer and Macmillan too!

Thanks for clearing that one up.

[Old Greg]

FTFY

Unlike you, Dodgy, I earn my living from my own labour, so am not a capitalist. I'm a very well paid worker.

[Mich the Tester]

Well that is a start I guess. But this would imply that Cameron is offering more benefits that he needs to under european rules. I find that hard to believe - he's a tory! (or he was one)


Because global warming is a good excuse for them to inhibit industrial activity and controlling the rich with higher taxes and regulation - something all socialists love to do.


Regardless of debate, the point is there is nothing the European union can do for us (the UK) that we cannot do for ourselves. It offers no benefits, and can therefore only provide risk, and trouble.

First point; yes, the UK government gives away benefits that it doesn't have to give under EU rules. The EU only stipulates equal access for citizens of member states to contribution based benefits, and even then only after people have paid into the system for some length of time. The UK has been stupid enough to remove the distinction of contribution based and non-contribution based benefits; that was a stupid thing to do and the EU has nothing to do with it. Blame Mr B Liar for that one, or the coalition for failing to change it (as yet).

Secondly, while I agree that socialists tend to like high taxes (although actually the top rate of income tax in China, Vietnam and Cuba is lower than in the UK), what's this about socialists inhibiting industrial activity? What were all those tractor factories about in the USSR? Well OK, yes, the tractors were perhaps so tulip they just got in the way of the farmers, but they made them.

Thirdly, no, there will be no 'regardless of debate'; there will be debate about this and it's only just getting started. Do not expect your ideas about the EU to go unchallenged by others. I don't expect my ideas to go unchallenged either.

[Old Greg]

But they did have human rights - every soviet citizen was given a job, hence they earned a wage and were thus "looked after". Until they were sent to the gulag that is (or Siberia)

Actually my college personal tutor was fond of a sherry or three




Well that is a start I guess. But this would imply that Cameron is offering more benefits that he needs to under european rules. I find that hard to believe - he's a tory! (or he was one)


Because global warming is a good excuse for them to inhibit industrial activity and controlling the rich with higher taxes and regulation - something all socialists love to do.


Regardless of debate, the point is there is nothing the European union can do for us (the UK) that we cannot do for ourselves. It offers no benefits, and can therefore only provide risk, and trouble.

You are entirely missing the point of this debate. It is not about the EU (MTT is broadly pro-, I am anti-). It is about baiting the CUK cretins.

[DodgyAgent]

I get it. Churchill was a closet socialist! And Adenauer and Macmillan too!

Thanks for clearing that one up.

since when was Macmillan a socialist

I know you are trying desperately to argue the point any way you can but Britain's political system did not allow for Socialism to run its true course. it almost did however when the UK was in the grip of the Trade Unions but thanks to Maggie your friends were kicked out.

[Old Greg]

First point; yes, the UK government gives away benefits that it doesn't have to give under EU rules. The EU only stipulates equal access for citizens of member states to contribution based benefits, and even then only after people have paid into the system for some length of time. The UK has been stupid enough to remove the distinction of contribution based and non-contribution based benefits; that was a stupid thing to do and the EU has nothing to do with it. Blame Mr B Liar for that one, or the coalition for failing to change it (as yet).

Secondly, while I agree that socialists tend to like high taxes (although actually the top rate of income tax in China, Vietnam and Cuba is lower than in the UK), what's this about socialists inhibiting industrial activity? What were all those tractor factories about in the USSR? Well OK, yes, the tractors were perhaps so tulip they just got in the way of the farmers, but they made them.

Thirdly, no, there will be no 'regardless of debate'; there will be debate about this and it's only just getting started. Do not expect your ideas about the EU to go unchallenged by others. I don't expect my ideas to go unchallenged either.

The USSR was not socialist. HTH