Bring back John Major

[sasguru]

Humm. I doubt they'd move. Their market isn't mainland Europe.

Those % figures show increases, you got actual numbers.?
Companies need to make profits now as well as 10 years from now.
And I wouldn't write off Europe just yet, it's still the richest (with US) part of the world BY FAR.
The recession there is not permanent.

[scooterscot]

So you both want a continuation of the loss of £50 million/day directly to the EU, huge waves of poor immigrants into the country choking all our public services, and the strangling of more and more economic, social, and cultural activities by the EU? No thanks.

And by the way Major is wrong - look at Switzerland. Not part of the EU and as rich as everyone else!

We'd spend a lot more than in trading fees & taxes. Just ask Norway.

If we offer immigrants free money they'll continue to come. Besides the jobs would not be available to them if Brits were willing to work. Apparently getting up at 5.30am to be in the field collecting fruit or veg on 6.30am is too good for them.

Yes, lets look at Switzerland and it's 35% GDP to Debt ratio! The UK is bankrupt, we're ripe for takeover. Switzerland is much stronger.

[KentPhilip]

You can indeed negotiate; the question is how strong your negotiating position will be and whether you'll get a better deal than Cameron can get in his negotiations with Merkel inside the EU. I think he can get a good deal from those negotiations.

Oh and Switzerland didn't have much choice as it's surrounded by the EU and needs free trade with them. In fact what Switzerland has done is give in to all EU demands simply to take part in the economic zone but can't join because the Swiss electorate are opposed to it. Basically they've joined the EU as a non-voting member but nobody in Switzerland's governing parties dares to say that openly.

On the contrary, your negotiating position will be stronger out because we'll have all the extra trade with the rest of the world that is currently being stifled by the EU. I don't think Cameron has any interest in negotiating a good deal for the UK.

OK so Switzerland is outside the EU. This means that it has to pay tarrifs on anything that it imports and exports. But by the same token as a soverign government it can charge tarrifs on the same, so it all evens out to zero.

The way to think about the EU is of it being another country. In general you should only merge with another country when the politics, economics, and cultures of the two are similar. And in the case of Europe there is too much of a difference - we don't even speak the same language.

[scooterscot]

How stupid do you have to be to realise that Britain's "biggest trader partner" (the EU) is a shrinking market in economic distress whereas the rest of the world (China, India, LA) is a growing market with whom we cannot trade freely as we are bound by the EU's trading laws.

Britain would be better off out, although there would be a dip of 3-4 years while our economy adjusts.

After that we'd be trading with larger markets on better terms.

Plus of course, if we did leave, the EU wouldn't put up punitive trade barriers with the UK, since the Germans still want us to buy their cars, the French their cheese and wine, and so on.

The "worse off" argument is scaremongering.

It'll be funny if Scotland manages to leave the EU next year, like many in England (supposedly) would like.

[Old Greg]

On the contrary, your negotiating position will be stronger out because we'll have all the extra trade with the rest of the world that is currently being stifled by the EU. I don't think Cameron has any interest in negotiating a good deal for the UK.

OK so Switzerland is outside the EU. This means that it has to pay tarrifs on anything that it imports and exports. But by the same token as a soverign government it can charge tarrifs on the same, so it all evens out to zero.

The way to think about the EU is of it being another country. In general you should only merge with another country when the politics, economics, and cultures of the two are similar. And in the case of Europe there is too much of a difference - we don't even speak the same language.

So if every country in the world introduced equal trade tariffs, would it have no net effect?

[sasguru]

On the contrary, your negotiating position will be stronger out because we'll have all the extra trade with the rest of the world that is currently being stifled by the EU. I don't think Cameron has any interest in negotiating a good deal for the UK.

OK so Switzerland is outside the EU. This means that it has to pay tarrifs on anything that it imports and exports. But by the same token as a soverign government it can charge tarrifs on the same, so it all evens out to zero.

The way to think about the EU is of it being another country. In general you should only merge with another country when the politics, economics, and cultures of the two are similar. And in the case of Europe there is too much of a difference - we don't even speak the same language.

Question for you.
You know after you dropped out of Oxbridge all those years ago, did you suffer a traumatic head injury?
Or did the dons simply make a huge mistake admitting you?

[KentPhilip]

Question for you.
You know after you dropped out of Oxbridge all those years ago, did you suffer a traumatic head injury?
Or did the dons simply make a huge mistake admitting you?

I made a huge mistake in admitting the dons into my educational nirvana

[sasguru]

I made a huge mistake in admitting the dons into my educational nirvana

Ah I see it was the drugs. All makes sense now.

[KentPhilip]

So if every country in the world introduced equal trade tariffs, would it have no net effect?

No net effect on the governments, assuming balance of trade.

Of course clients and companies would have to pay these taxes. But these could be offset by the state using the income received to reduce the requirement for general taxation, which boosts business and profitability of domestic and intercontinental enterprises.
i.e. trade tariffs have no net effect.

[Old Greg]

No net effect on the governments, assuming balance of trade.

Of course clients and companies would have to pay these taxes. But these could be offset by the state using the income received to reduce the requirement for general taxation, which boosts business and profitability of domestic and intercontinental enterprises.
i.e. trade tariffs have no net effect.

So if every country put up a tariff of 100% on all imports and exports, that would have no net effect?

And 1,000%?

And 10,000%?