If I hadn't gone to private school...

[DodgyAgent]

Poor DA went to private school and ended up at the bottom of the list. Oh dear.

Just think where I would have been at a compreOiksive.

There is a serious point here. It is interesting that this Kynaston guy seems to think that there should be a finite availability of decent schooling. his premise is that this should only be available for the bright and hardworking and not for the dull and lazy.
What the private system has done is to enable the "dull and lazy" to get on in the world despite their shortcomings.

If top quality private education can keep the dull and lazy from falling into poverty why not extend it to everyone?
The whole point of education should be to find the good in children and build on it to give them the confidence and aspiration to get on in their lives. It is not to discriminate only with the bright and "obviously" talented.

I have never understood why schools only ever seem to coach the first teams at sport. Many children want to play football, rugby or tennis yet unless they are naturally talented they are ignored. This should not be the case.

T

[doodab]

If top quality private education can keep the dull and lazy from falling into poverty why not extend it to everyone

Because you can't. It's logically impossible. If you have 5,000,000 "educations" then either they are all the same (and hence the term "top quality" becomes meaningless as there is only one quality) or they are different, in which case only some of them are "top quality". A market that drives people to differentiate and innovate in order to compete more effectively isn't going to produce 5,000,000 identical educations, therefore only some of them will be top quality, and those ones will be able to charge more, thus remaining the preserve of the elite.

[doodab]

Just think where I would have been at a special needs school.

FTFY

[DodgyAgent]

Because you can't. It's logically impossible. If you have 5,000,000 "educations" then either they are all the same (and hence the term "top quality" becomes meaningless as there is only one quality) or they are different, in which case only some of them are "top quality". A market that drives people to differentiate and innovate in order to compete more effectively isn't going to produce 5,000,000 identical educations, therefore only some of them will be top quality, and those ones will be able to charge more, thus remaining the preserve of the elite.

So why not make every school private and give people vouchers with which to spend. Why shouldn't every school have the highest standards of teaching and facilities. I am not talking about giving every child the same education I am talking about giving parents choices.

[DirtyDog]

So why not make every school private and give people vouchers with which to spend. Why shouldn't every school have the highest standards of teaching and facilities. I am not talking about giving every child the same education I am talking about giving parents choices.

You would have thought that if any government would understand the importance of spending thousands of pounds each year on each pupil, it would have been this one.

[DodgyAgent]

You would have thought that if any government would understand the importance of spending thousands of pounds each year on each pupil, it would have been this one.

It would probably mean a huge battle with the teaching unions and the education authorities. Keith Joseph set about the idea under Thatchers government. I do not think the govt have the stomach for wholesale reform so they are sneaking it in through the academy system.

[OwlHoot]

So why not make every school private and give people vouchers with which to spend. Why shouldn't every school have the highest standards of teaching and facilities. I am not talking about giving every child the same education I am talking about giving parents choices.

The main problem is that these days there are so many more well-paid jobs available for degree qualified men, and even more so (compared to say 60 years ago) for women. So to attract teachers of the necessary calibre, you're competing with all these jobs and would have to pay salaries to match.

There's no way this situation will improve until interactive virtual reality computer training courses, with a few inspirational tip-top teachers indirectly lecturing to thousands, are of sufficient quality to be used more widely in schools, at least as a supplement to mediocre teaching.

[Mich the Tester]

I have never understood why schools only ever seem to coach the first teams at sport. Many children want to play football, rugby or tennis yet unless they are naturally talented they are ignored. This should not be the case.

T

I agree, but you have to remember that in England, there's a luxury of numbers in rugby; New Zealand achieves more (relative to playing numbers) in rugby because they have the systems to develop every kid to his maximum ability, largely because with less people, they have to do that to compete at the highest level. English schools don't necessarily have to bother; a bunch of talented kids are available for the firsts, so they get the best coaching as that gives the coach a feeling of prestige. I'm a case in point; not particularly 'talented' and the only reason I ended up playing at a higher standard than anyone from my schooldays is perhaps that at 15 I fell out with the school rugby coaches and went to play for a good nearby club that gave me the coaching that allowed me to outgrow my relative lack of talent. I never played for my school 1st XV, always either in the 2nds or on the reserve bench, but a few years later I played in the English 2nd division then played for some first class 7s teams that won some major tournaments. Of course, I was subjected to a tough regime of training and selection and had to fight to prove I was worth it, while some of the supposedly talented kids didn't. They got a shock when they left school and tried to break through in good clubs as they weren't physically prepared and their talent was not much more than being a moderately sized fish in a very small pond.

It looks to me like Wales have got their youth system in order though, anyway, I'm getting off topic.

[Mich the Tester]

So why not make every school private and give people vouchers with which to spend. Why shouldn't every school have the highest standards of teaching and facilities. I am not talking about giving every child the same education I am talking about giving parents choices.

A very worthy idea, but it might unwittingly perpetuate the current problems, as it relies on the ability of parents to make good choices; like it or not, some are very good at that, and some aren't.

[DodgyAgent]

I agree, but you have to remember that in England, there's a luxury of numbers in rugby; New Zealand achieves more (relative to playing numbers) in rugby because they have the systems to develop every kid to his maximum ability, largely because with less people, they have to do that to compete at the highest level. English schools don't necessarily have to bother; a bunch of talented kids are available for the firsts, so they get the best coaching as that gives the coach a feeling of prestige. I'm a case in point; not particularly 'talented' and the only reason I ended up playing at a higher standard than anyone from my schooldays is perhaps that at 15 I fell out with the school rugby coaches and went to play for a good nearby club that gave me the coaching that allowed me to outgrow my relative lack of talent. I never played for my school 1st XV, always either in the 2nds or on the reserve bench, but a few years later I played in the English 2nd division then played for some first class 7s teams that won some major tournaments. Of course, I was subjected to a tough regime of training and selection and had to fight to prove I was worth it, while some of the supposedly talented kids didn't. They got a shock when they left school and tried to break through in good clubs as they weren't physically prepared and their talent was not much more than being a moderately sized fish in a very small pond.

It looks to me like Wales have got their youth system in order though, anyway, I'm getting off topic.

Nothing wrong with that