Faff off

[eek]

There's a lot of members in the public sector

That's just mates employing crappier mates so they don't look bad. Eventually they will run out of crap BCS members and try to recruit SAS.

[bobspud]

That's just mates employing crappier mates so they don't look bad. Eventually they will run out of crap BCS members and try to recruit SAS.

Plenty of very clever people in the civil service its just that the system is designed to stop them achieving anything. I did a stint at one place (I only managed 5 months before I said **** this and walked) There were guys on £600 a day that had done 3 years and never actually delivered a project. Not through lack of trying but more because it wasn't expected. They would get a new project, plan it, go to POC phase, and then someone would change their mind and they would have to start again... 140 project in flight 1 delivered in 2012 and that was incompatible with the conferencing systems the rest of whitehall use...

[aussielong]

IT is a gold rush. We all want into the next great thing but few rarely obtain a competent skill in what they do today before moving on to tomorrows skill.

Suity gets the butt of the jokes here but I doubt he is the only board member that is watching this crap he's just one of the few that has the guts to vent it.

Most of the issues I have seen come when a company gives a job to an aspiring permie on the hope that they can handle it. This will rarely end well because the permie has no intention of going back to their boss and saying whoops I screwed this up, because they view it as their one chance up the ladder. So thats why every IT project has some form of scene from the gremlins in the middle of it while various factions fight not to be caught being dumb...

The B.A is the worst role on the planet:
They have the wonderful job of Asking someone who doesn't understand the concept of requirements, to elucidate their needs in free flowing english. Then taking the drivel that they have virtually beaten out of the user to an architect and expect to get more than just the usual "WFT is this what are you trying to tell me? now do it properly" No one wants to spend the time on requirements because they are boring and don't really look like progress...

I rarely see a B.A that enjoys their life...

I think you are working in places where the Permies are poor and the contractors are whizz kids. In the top places, the Permies are at the top end of the team and most contractors could not even get permie jobs.

[sasguru]

I think you are working in places where the Permies are poor and the contractors are whizz kids. In the top places, the Permies are at the top end of the team and most contractors could not even get permie jobs.

Ah that explains why you're on the bench in Oz.

PS How are you getting on with your maths tutor? He demanded a thicko supplement yet?

[sasguru]

That's just mates employing crappier mates so they don't look bad. Eventually they will run out of crap BCS members and try to recruit SAS.

Which would still be preferable to recruiting you since at least one person could count.

[eek]

Which would still be preferable to recruiting you since at least one person could count.

Demo or link please oh chief, lifetime president, cretin?

[aussielong]

Ah that explains why you're on the bench in Oz.

PS How are you getting on with your maths tutor? He demanded a thicko supplement yet?

I'm not on the bench. I've been offered a lot of cash to go to Europe so I'm winding up a 2 year gig.

Have you been out of your house today?

You're not a maths head. If you were, you would of spotted the obvious answer in that stats problem I set you a few weeks ago. Go and have a closer look at it brains.

[bobspud]

I think you are working in places where the Permies are poor

No I just see too many places where Permies have stuck around for 5 or more years and are used to how its done here... They are vested in the idea that they don't need change and their company will look after them for ever.

and the contractors are whizz kids

To be very honest, I would say that the standard of most contractors is fairly mediocre these days. I get especially pissed off with Infrastructure monkeys that seem to have lost the basics years ago. As a permy the contractors that helped me were elite. they didn't just seem clever they had a way of working that was far better than anyone I had around me at the time and I knew I would have to leave permidom in order to grow...
I'm not surprised some permy guys get fed up at contractors today. too many of them are not rounded enough and see the cash signs before they have the skills.

In the top places, the Permies are at the top end of the team and most contractors could not even get permie jobs.

There really is no chance of a good contractor wanting a full time job as a permy. I would need a perm salary of over 180k to match my investment return from the last few years. I just ordered a nice sports car and I get to work from home most days because I am good. From where I am standing the more chaos you throw in my way the happier I am. The difference is that these days I have stopped trying to solve the insanity of others that can't be helped and now concentrate on the things that earn me my crust and an extension...

[aussielong]

No I just see too many places where Permies have stuck around for 5 or more years and are used to how its done here... They are vested in the idea that they don't need change and their company will look after them for ever.



To be very honest, I would say that the standard of most contractors is fairly mediocre these days. I get especially pissed off with Infrastructure monkeys that seem to have lost the basics years ago. As a permy the contractors that helped me were elite. they didn't just seem clever they had a way of working that was far better than anyone I had around me at the time and I knew I would have to leave permidom in order to grow...
I'm not surprised some permy guys get fed up at contractors today. too many of them are not rounded enough and see the cash signs before they have the skills.



There really is no chance of a good contractor wanting a full time job as a permy. I would need a perm salary of over 180k to match my investment return from the last few years. I just ordered a nice sports car and I get to work from home most days because I am good. From where I am standing the more chaos you throw in my way the happier I am. The difference is that these days I have stopped trying to solve the insanity of others that can't be helped and now concentrate on the things that earn me my crust and an extension...

180k is not a top permie salary. Try 300k. Your problem is you think you have reached the top of K2 and can speak about mountaineering but you're only half way up Ben Nevis and you're actually speaking about hiking.

But you're spot on about lowering of standards.

[tomtomagain]

Sadly most IT projects are a mess. It’s not a very mature profession really. Lots of charlatans enter the business unchecked.

Its not most "IT" projects. It is "Most Projects" that are a mess.

Tell me one other discipline that successfully executes projects?