Originally posted by original PM
View Post
- Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
- Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!
IT people are overly wedded to logic
Collapse
X
-
While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story about a guy named 'Manual.' -
Originally posted by original PM View Postover time that task will change and therefore so must the system.While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story about a guy named 'Manual.'Comment
-
Originally posted by Mich the Tester View PostTrouble is, I've never seen a 'quick and dirty' application that doesn't morph into a critical application or an interface for several other systems. So often managers say ít's only a temporary solution, but years later half a bloody multinational doesn't realise it's become dependent on some crappy MS Access DB thrown together with no thought of the future, and it ends up costing gazillions of euros to replace with some some swanky SAPCrap or Siebeltheweeble 'complete enterprise solution'. Of course, this does provide invoicing opportunities for contractors.
If the application wasn't sufficiently important, it wouldn't get built in the first place. If it is worth building, then it's worth building properly. Think of the additional cost as insurance.While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story about a guy named 'Manual.'Comment
-
Originally posted by DodgyAgent View PostGive me an example.. There that should keep you quiet for a few weeks.While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story about a guy named 'Manual.'Comment
-
Originally posted by DodgyAgent View PostMany such systems are cobbled together by a bunch of cowboys and work perfectly fine yet all I hear on this board are cries about quality when most likely your version of quality is not required.
The trouble is that most of you think that managers are simply there to stand in the way of what you want to do when they have a system to deliver at a budget that has severe limitations. In the meantime they have to deal with a bunch of fleck wits who have no comprehension of what is really required.
If you start a project and I say - I need a ledger to charge the project startup costs to up front (as per standard company practice) they say how much will it cost?
So I say well to look into it and give a firm cost < $5K
No they say how much will the whole undefined project cost?
Well I guess it will be less than the $150,000 you were expecting to spend with an external vendor .
No we want an exact price now.
I reply well lets have the exact specifications now.
Oh no they say we can't do that its too complicated. What will it cost?
so you invent a figure.
they grudgingly give you a ledger then they spend weeks arguing about every cross charge even if they explicitly approved it before.
You write 50 pages of specifications with pictures. You show them a limited prototype built on an old test system in a weekend.
You directly negotiate an agreement with the works councils to allow you to use this new technology the first time it has happened (they have refused other similar technologies).
you run through it 7-8 times and vote at the gate. You explain as per company policy once they vote yes they are sealing the design.
They vote yes after 10 reminders.
they complain its taking too long, you point out that 3 weeks to press yes on an email is a big part of the delay.
Also the risk you identified at the start that the only resource in the business who was allowed to do part X was busy for 6 months of their choosing but you have a meeting on the evening of the 22nd June at 9pm to kick off as that was the first time they were free. They have approx 2 months work to do this is publicised.
They phone you every day from the 1st of February to ask why isn't it moving forward and complain to your boss that you are going slowly. He agrees with them
At the beginning of August the managers start complaining why isn't it moving faster?
You get the chap to put together a functioning prototype in the actual official system and show it to them, they say you know we want A,B,C and T changed. You point out they voted on the design, the boss over rules you. Oh by the way the the deadline has moved forward.
They then complain about the hours charged.
You know you will deliver it and they will complain about the cost which is less than the figure you agreed, functionality which you set in the beginning but they changed at last minute and time - yes you guessed it it was agreed at the start and you are 2 hours over.
As for quality when you have to meet legal or statutory restrictions then you have to pass them, just pretending they pass isn't enough.
My personal recommendation was to use an external supplier that was a third of the original cost and could have been expanded to deal with other requirements easily but the managers didn't have an external budget to use. It would have taken half the time to market, would have been provably safe and been a better solution. I was over ruled by Managers!
-------------
Personally I'm quite happy to just do it, I have three projects recently that just depended on me to do the work and they finished on time. Its the others and the politics that hack me off.Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.Comment
-
Originally posted by DodgyAgent View PostAnd another thing managers have to deal with is IT people who build up a proprietary knowledge of a system and keep it to themselves and then use this knowledge to enhance their own standing and obstruct anything that they do not like.Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.Comment
-
Originally posted by vetran View Postor you can go the other way, managers who move support staff around and expect them to support systems by osmosis.While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story about a guy named 'Manual.'Comment
-
Originally posted by vetran View Postor you can go the other way, managers who move support staff around and expect them to support systems by osmosis.What happens in General, stays in General.You know what they say about assumptions!Comment
-
Originally posted by doodab View PostIs that where the systems stay alive by sucking the life out of people?Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.Comment
-
Originally posted by doodab View PostWhile I agree with the second sentence, I have to say that the perception that IT "overcomplicate" things invariably comes from the fact that in order to "really understand the goal" and build a system to support it one has to dig into all of the complex details that the business have ignored, omitted or simply not bothered to share until that point. In general they have grossly oversimplified the goal and have only a vague concept of what they are trying to achieve. Usually this takes the form of a catchy name (Next Generation Platform, Corporate Spine, yada yada yada) that sounds good and evokes all sorts of expectations about the magic that might happen, coupled to a complete lack of actual detail about what it actually does.
I am not saying that developers do not have their faults, but the biggest hurdle for IT is to get the business moving and make them understand what the roadblock is in a particulr requirement! Which probably explains why some IT guys become managers, to bridge the gap between non-IT managers and IT, which leads to them shouting "quality" (and take things in a completely different direction ) SDLC process is pretty immature alrightLast edited by tranceporter; 16 August 2013, 11:18.I am Brad. I do more than the needful and drive the market rates up by not bobbing my head.Comment
- Home
- News & Features
- First Timers
- IR35 / S660 / BN66
- Employee Benefit Trusts
- Agency Workers Regulations
- MSC Legislation
- Limited Companies
- Dividends
- Umbrella Company
- VAT / Flat Rate VAT
- Job News & Guides
- Money News & Guides
- Guide to Contracts
- Successful Contracting
- Contracting Overseas
- Contractor Calculators
- MVL
- Contractor Expenses
Advertisers
Contractor Services
CUK News
- Streamline Your Retirement with iSIPP: A Solution for Contractor Pensions Sep 1 09:13
- Making the most of pension lump sums: overview for contractors Sep 1 08:36
- Umbrella company tribunal cases are opening up; are your wages subject to unlawful deductions, too? Aug 31 08:38
- Contractors, relabelling 'labour' as 'services' to appear 'fully contracted out' won't dupe IR35 inspectors Aug 31 08:30
- How often does HMRC check tax returns? Aug 30 08:27
- Work-life balance as an IT contractor: 5 top tips from a tech recruiter Aug 30 08:20
- Autumn Statement 2023 tipped to prioritise mental health, in a boost for UK workplaces Aug 29 08:33
- Final reminder for contractors to respond to the umbrella consultation (closing today) Aug 29 08:09
- Top 5 most in demand cyber security contract roles Aug 25 08:38
- Changes to the right to request flexible working are incoming, but how will contractors be affected? Aug 24 08:25
Comment