Zero hours contracts

[eek]

And what makes you think they do not like working on these jobs? and I am sorry but it is fair unless you have a better alternative - which I presume would amount to state interference.

Go and ask anyone who does visiting care work in people's houses. They are paid by the amount of time spent in the patient's home. Not paid for the time travelling between houses, let alone mileage.....

Over the past 15 years agencies have competed away all their margin to the extent that the only way councils and others will employ them..... is to reduces costs to the minimum. That means keeping costs to an absolute minimum and to do that the entire industry offers 0 hour contracts or nothing.

The annoying thing is that this is a job were consistency (in having the same carers visiting at the same times every week) and quality (as in having enough time to do both the caring required and being polite, caring and talking to the patient) should be essential. However, councils, the NHS and the agencies in their desire to keep costs to a minimum have reduced those items to optional extras.

[original PM]

Go and ask anyone who does visiting care work in people's houses. They are paid by the amount of time spent in the patient's home. Not paid for the time travelling between houses, let alone mileage.....

Over the past 15 years agencies have competed away all their margin to the extent that the only way councils and others will employ them..... is to reduces costs to the minimum. That means keeping costs to an absolute minimum and to do that the entire industry offers 0 hour contracts or nothing.

The annoying thing is that this is a job were consistency (in having the same carers visiting at the same times every week) and quality (as in having enough time to do both the caring required and being polite, caring and talking to the patient) should be essential. However, councils, the NHS and the agencies in their desire to keep costs to a minimum have reduced those items to optional extras.

That is simply because accountants run the world and know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

[eek]

Oops

[doodab]

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You're going to have to elaborate

[eek]

You're going to have to elaborate

Stupid phone ignore the post

[Peoplesoft bloke]

As I recall it, one of the tests for IR35 was "mutuality of obligation". Zero hours only has an obligation in one direction. The only change I would make would be to make it illegal for employers to insist on exclusivity. In this way people could contract to a number of employers - that would be a proper market and would redress the balance a bit, without trying to ban something that undoubtedly works for some people, and is abused by some employers.

[AtW]

Can employees on zero hour contracts say they are busy when employer actually calls on them without losing the "job"?

It's only fair that one side calls when it has got work, but the other side only takes it if they got time - unless there is a retainer involved and SLA.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Can employees on zero hour contracts say they are busy when employer actually calls on them without losing the "job"?

It's only fair that one side calls when it has got work, but the other side only takes it if they got time - unless there is a retainer involved and SLA.

In theory, yes. Bad employers then make sure said "employee" is then put right at the back of the list for any available hours - there are tales of workers who turned down a shift getting zero for the next two weeks. I'm not against flexibility, but you have to allow "employees" to sign up for loads of zero hours "jobs" to even out the balance and give people a chance to make a living (if that's what they are trying to do).

[socialworker]

Public sector jobs that are paid for from taxes or private sector jobs over which the Government has little control?

In my current gig I have met several severely disabled people who have been having home care for 30 years or more. They tell me their care was much better when provided by staff in proper pensionable jobs employed directly by th e council. The stream of casual staff they now get since outsourcing are often immature, unreliable, show few people skills etc. Astonishingly they often dont get even minimum pay as they are not paid for travel between houses. Imagine how that works rural areas. Councils should not in my view be allowed to use care agencies who use zero hour contracts , quality does not come from people who are treated as mere commodities.

[AtW]

In theory, yes. Bad employers then make sure said "employee" is then put right at the back of the list for any available hours - there are tales of workers who turned down a shift getting zero for the next two weeks.

I am pretty sure that's the case.