Shock! Horror! Daily Wail says NHS tourism costing billions.

[sasguru]

UK Visa fee should include amount to act as medical insurance policy.

An eminently sensible idea but since it is so, a bureacracy will never implememnt it.

[Mich the Tester]

I'm sure that splitting the indigenous white Britons into economic groups, rather than taking the average, would show chavs with significantly poor health outcomes due to obesity, drinking and drugs.

Ah, but white people tend to get split up into working, middle, upper class, educated, semi-educated, employed, underemployed, unemployed, self employed etcetera because everyone recognises that they are spread across all categories of people and they form a majority and so it's pointless to say 'my car was stolen by a white person, so all white people must be car thieves.' Black folks are often just considered generically 'black' by the Wail and other idiots whether they're car thieves, shopkeepers or nuclear physicists, or indeed whether they're of Caribbean, west African, east African, southern African, Polynesian, Melanesian or any other descent. By splitting up white people into different subcategories while maintaining the generic 'black' construct you can make white folks look as good or as bad as you like. You could do that the other way around too, and state that there are lower crime rates among black university professors than among white people in general. You should know this, Mr Statistician.

[sasguru]

Ah, but white people tend to get split up into working, middle, upper class, educated, semi-educated, employed, underemployed, unemployed, self employed etcetera because everyone recognises that they are spread across all categories of people and they form a majority and so it's pointless to say 'my car was stolen by a white person, so all white people must be car thieves.' Black folks are often just considered generically 'black' by the Wail and other idiots whether they're car thieves, shopkeepers or nuclear physicists, or indeed whether they're of Caribbean, west African, east African, southern African, Polynesian, Melanesian or any other descent. By splitting up white people into different subcategories while maintaining the generic 'black' construct you can make white folks look as good or as bad as you like. You could do that the other way around too, and state that there are lower crime rates among black university professors than among white people in general. You should know this, Mr Statistician.

My point related specifically to the fact that health has a much higher correlation with socio-economic status rather than race (HEOR is what I work in, so I know of what I speak).
From Xog's link, Indians and Black Africans (as opposed to Afro Carribeans) have similar health to white Britons. Now there's a surprise, not. Look at O-level results for the various groups and see the correlation.

I also think you're being a tad disingenous in your claims. There is disproportionately high criminality within the Afro-carribean community. That's not any sort of "construct".

[Mich the Tester]

My point related specifically to the fact that health has a much higher correlation with socio-economic status rather than race (HEOR is what I work in, so I know of what I speak).
From Xog's link, Indians and Black Africans (as opposed to Afro Carribeans) have similar health to white Britons. Now there's a surprise, not. Look at O-level results for the various groups and see the correlation.

I also think you're being a tad disingenous in your claims. There is disproportionately high criminality within the Afro-carribean community. That's not any sort of "construct".

It is if you count people as part of a 'community'; any afro-carribeans aren't actively involved in some Afro-Carribean community, but just get on with their lives like anyone else. But yes, there is indeed a high rate of convictions among Afro-Carribeans. Convictions is arguably also a construct, but never mind. The trouble is to work out why there's more crime in the places where a lot of Afro Carribeans live, and I actually get the impression that the problem is starting to get better with time, as many migration problems do. I don't want to deny the problems, I just can't stand the simplistic crap spouted by the Wail every day. I don't mind seeing the pictures of Kelly Brook though.

[AtW]

[xoggoth]

I actually get the impression that the problem is starting to get better with time, as many migration problems do

Not read that of Afro Caribbeans but it is certainly the case with Bangladeshis - in educational achievement they are moving up quite fast and that seems to correlate rather well with economic progress in Bangladesh.

Problems tend to get blamed on racism, exclusion etc but in reality the success or otherwise of minority groups here reflect the nature of the societies they come from. Look at relative success of those from China, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, of those from West African countries like Ghana and Eastern ones like Somalia. Within nations too, Kashmiris compared to Pakistan generally. Not all coincidence surely?

An obvious factor is education but I wonder if there is not some "Renaissance factor", a feeling of self belief that can grip a people. Unfortunately I think the UK is losing it.

[vetran]

An obvious factor is education but I wonder if there is not some "Renaissance factor", a feeling of self belief that can grip a people. Unfortunately I think the UK has lost it.

FTFY

[vetran]

no one has the slightest idea how much its costing the NHS because there is no investigation at the lowest levels.

for years the maternity ward has been stuffed with non english speaking patients.

The doctors surgery is filled with non english speaking or heavily accented patients.

these people are not born here, are they eligible for free care? - I personally doubt it, but I can't be sure.

I suspect in some areas it will be endemic and the figures will be huge. Until someone checks at point of use we won't know.