I'm not completely convinced it's a good idea to leave Europe

[istvan]

I like your motto:

"We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." - Sir Winston Churchill

And also, by cutting back on everything will not lead to prosperity either.

There are three countries who print money and inflate their currency to chip their depth away: US, UK, and Japan. Of course, they make the people pay for the depth created by politicians (mortgaging the future). Europe instead of printing money attacked the off-shores. Probably a good idea ...

[DodgyAgent]

I like your motto:



And also, by cutting back on everything will not lead to prosperity either.
.

Wrong.

Cutting back on public sector jobs will not reduce standards of performance and it will lead to more prosperity.

[Mich the Tester]

I like your motto:



And also, by cutting back on everything will not lead to prosperity either.

There are three countries who print money and inflate their currency to chip their depth away: US, UK, and Japan. Of course, they make the people pay for the depth created by politicians (mortgaging the future). Europe instead of printing money attacked the off-shores. Probably a good idea ...

Indeed it won't. But I think that all European countries really need to consider the extent to which they've allowed government to take a bigger and bigger role in their economies and place a huge burden of tax and regulation on their businesses and on individuals. I was hoping that the current budget deficits and debt crisis would force this re-examination but I'm losing that hope very quickly.

[istvan]

Indeed it won't. But I think that all European countries really need to consider the extent to which they've allowed government to take a bigger and bigger role in their economies and place a huge burden of tax and regulation on their businesses and on individuals. I was hoping that the current budget deficits and debt crisis would force this re-examination but I'm losing that hope very quickly.

I agree, also agree with DodgyAgent. Government is no longer helping, but burdening states. In the US, every-time they reduce the government it grows bigger... go figure.

[istvan]

I agree, also agree with DodgyAgent. Government is no longer helping, but burdening states. In the US, every-time they reduce the government it grows bigger... go figure.

Maybe it is time for another flood and start all over again.

[DodgyAgent]

What disturbs me is that that we create public sector jobs for unhealthy people to wear uniforms to spend all day giving directions to Eastern Europeans wanting to find their way to the many private sector jobs around the country

[Mich the Tester]

I agree, also agree with DodgyAgent. Government is no longer helping, but burdening states. In the US, every-time they reduce the government it grows bigger... go figure.

Take IR35 as an example that many here will recognise. There's similar legislation here in NL and it creates just as much annoyance. The legislation was ostensibly introduced here in NL to protect lower skilled workers against bosses who wanted to force them into self employment and thus bypass a lot of the employment protection laws. Politicians decided 'we must do something about this!' But of course what happened is what always happens when you bring in well intended legislation to tackle some issue that's been raised; it starts affecting all sorts of people, it has unintended consequences (especially at the high end of the labour market) and it costs money to implement it. That money has to be raised from taxes, so in this case they have to employ more busybodies to check, inspect and enforce. Of course, when you hire more inspectors and enforcers, they start claiming they don't have all the tools they need to bring in the extra money, so they 'advise' the government to bring in some new regulations, and the whole circle starts again.

You could simply have applied the law as it stood, namely that employers have commitments to employees, and that self employment is entirely a voluntary choice; nobody must sign in to companies house, or the KvK in NL under duress, and if he feels he's being forced to do so, then hammer that employer instead of throwing bureaucracy and threats at everybody. But no, we have legislation, we have silly court procedures, we have forms to be filled in, and so on and so on. The problem started with knee-jerk legislation based on government distrusting the public. Distrust costs an awful lot of money. Trust is more productive, but from time to time it involves disappointment.

[Mich the Tester]

Id like to see politicians who will say 'no' to people. No, you can't have a new school building, unless you're prepared to accept that we'll have less to spend on the emergency department in your local hospital, no, we can't have more immigration checks unless you're prepared to pay more taxes to employ all the immigration people. No, we're not going to regulate the trade in porn, booze, fags, pulp TV, wierd finance or any other annoyance until you come up with a way to replace the billions of taxes we make from it. In other words, no more promises but hard choices. Or no, we're not going to leave the EU until it is very clear to us what the consequences will be. At the moment, everyone is guessing, but nobody really has a clue what will happen.

[KaiserWilly]

The easiest game in town is to show anecdotal "proof" that we do not in fact live in a democracy.

You missed my point. My point was that actually we live in a democracy. Or, at least, a system based on universal suffrage. And that's precisely the problem of the West: democracies are OK when things go well, but they are useless when things go badly. As a matter of fact, our political system is broken. That's why politicians are now considered the scum of the earth.

So our democracy may not be perfect but it works better than any other system.

I disagree. Democracy doesn't work when it comes to making hard, unpopular decisions. The Singaporeans, the Chinese even the Russians have a better political system. At least their leaders care about their countries. You think Cameron or Blair cared about the British people?

[shaunbhoy]

the Chinese even the Russians have a better political system. At least their leaders care about their countries.

Nurse? Another one has escaped!!!!