I'm not completely convinced it's a good idea to leave Europe

[Mich the Tester]

Where? Hungary? I am 100% anti-Communist but I don't regard the Eastern European satellites of the Soviets as "totalitarian".

So why did they go apetulip and rebel several times during the Soviet era, cuminating in the revolution of 1989? Was that just for something to do of an evening?

[DodgyAgent]

You think the UK leadership is better than the Chinese?

It depends on how you define "better".

The Chinese political elite are better at lining their own pockets
They are better at locking people up without proper trials
They are better at killing their own people
They are better at getting newspapers to write nice stories about their leaders
They are better at exploiting Africa.

Yep, as ever Kaiser Bill you are spot on. Your ancestor would have been proud of you.

[DodgyAgent]

Where? Hungary? I am 100% anti-Communist but I don't regard the Eastern European satellites of the Soviets as "totalitarian".

You wouldn't would you:

The Hungarian Uprising of 1956

[KaiserWilly]

So why did they go apetulip and rebel several times during the Soviet era, cuminating in the revolution of 1989? Was that just for something to do of an evening?

Totalitarian is not the same as authoritarian. In classical studies of totalitarianism (Hanna Arendt, eg), only two examples are identified: Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. You could also add Maoist China. Currently, only North Korea fits the description of a "totalitarian" state. In comparison, China is a liberal state.

A major difference is that there are no dissidents in totalitarian states: they are all either in a concentration camps or dead. Evidence shows that there was a sizable minority of dissidents in Eastern Europe. I don't know the Hungarian case, but in CZ you had all the intellectuals behind the Charter 77, for instance. Ditto for East Germany.

[DodgyAgent]

Totalitarian is not the same as authoritarian. In classical studies of totalitarianism (Hanna Arendt, eg), only two examples are identified: Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. You could also add Maoist China. Currently, only North Korea fits the description of a "totalitarian" state. In comparison, China is a liberal state.

A major difference is that there are no dissidents in totalitarian states: they are all either in a concentration camps or dead. Evidence shows that there was a sizable minority of dissidents in Eastern Europe. I don't know the Hungarian case, but in CZ you had all the intellectuals behind the Charter 77, for instance. Ditto for East Germany.

You are splitting hairs by dovetailing off to a seperate argument. OK then replace "totalitarianism" with "authoritarian". The same arguments stand.

[KaiserWilly]

It depends on how you define "better".

The Chinese political elite are better at lining their own pockets

Like the British. The difference is that if you get caught in China you risk the firing squad.

[KaiserWilly]

You are splitting hairs by dovetailing off to a seperate argument. OK then replace "totalitarianism" with "authoritarian". The same arguments stand.

Someone threw the word "totalitarian" without any idea of what this term means. Not my fault people here have a poor political culture.

[shaunbhoy]

I am sure the average Chinese citizen has to endure less state regulation and interference in his daily live than the British.

Well of course all that time you spent living in China must have reinforced that belief. Just how long was that, out of interest?

[DodgyAgent]

Like the British. The difference is that if you get caught in China you risk the firing squad.

It is not the same. In China corruption is institutional, it is not in the UK. In china corruption cannot be easily investigated by the press. In the UK the press can even make it up without being in fear

Apart from that In what way then is China a better system of government than the UKs

[DodgyAgent]

Someone threw the word "totalitarian" without any idea of what this term means. Not my fault people here have a poor political culture.

And a good job too as it is neatly enabling you to sidestep the argument