Wales v England

[Mich the Tester]

Kinda. Still requires an engagement on "Set" and is only looking to reduce the force of it. The original rules of scrum were that it be stable before the ball is fed in. Since the engagement doesn't have any value of itself, other than a way to bully the other team, why not try a standing start.

You never know, we may even go back to hooking*...

*Guess where I used to play....

This is the key to proper scrums, and I understand you're an old hooker. Hooking's a skill that people spend many years mastering, and it's a position that offers a place to people who are usually a 'somewhat different shape' to others on the field; I feel it's important rugby should offer a place to all shapes and sizes; that's why scrummaging is so important.

[psychocandy]

Dear England,

A lot of people paid good money to watch that game on Saturday. Next time, if you're not going to try and make a game of it, we'll let our womens team have a go at you.

Yours Sincerely,

Wales.

[Mich the Tester]

Dear England,

A lot of people paid good money to watch that game on Saturday. Next time, if you're not going to try and make a game of it, we'll let our womens team have a go at you.

Yours Sincerely,

Wales.

[psychocandy]

[Mich the Tester]

I thought you said 'womens team' ?

[d000hg]

Yes, a classic case of England winning by killing every game

"Mummy they won't let us play the way we want to and we can't score any points and it's NOT FAIR".

Poppycock.

[gingerjedi]

Yeah well, we'll leave aside the late 60s, the 70s, most of the 90s, and the last three years then, will we?

What the Welsh hate is not the English winning, but the English tellng everyone how great they are at winning. Bit like the kickballers and 1966...

As an Englishman working in Cardiff I can confirm this definitely works both ways only their version has more bile and hatred towards their neighbours, I've never seen that from an English rugby fan.

They do get rather irritated when I tell them that I don't really follow rugby.

[original PM]

hmm well well done to the Wales but also lets have a bit of persepctive and loose that hate the english small minded bigotry hey - i thought Rugby players and followers were gentleman (or ladies) and above that sort of vile pettyminded rhetoric

But anyway to the scrums - it just seemed that the ref had decided that a scrum was pretty much an excuse to penalise england (although it may have been equally against the welsh but it did not seem to be the case). And yes why did he take so long I am no expert but if you get what 8 18 ish stone blokes, tie them together and then expect them to hang around for a minute whilst the ref seems to try to remeber what to say it is never going to end well is it

having said all that England just did not get going and the welsh did!

[Mich the Tester]

hmm well well done to the Wales but also lets have a bit of persepctive and loose that hate the english small minded bigotry hey - i thought Rugby players and followers were gentleman (or ladies) and above that sort of vile pettyminded rhetoric

But anyway to the scrums - it just seemed that the ref had decided that a scrum was pretty much an excuse to penalise england (although it may have been equally against the welsh but it did not seem to be the case). And yes why did he take so long I am no expert but if you get what 8 18 ish stone blokes, tie them together and then expect them to hang around for a minute whilst the ref seems to try to remeber what to say it is never going to end well is it

having said all that England just did not get going and the welsh did!

I heard Will Greenwood talking about sitting in the team bus driving into Cardiff to play against Wales and he said that the hatred was quite obvious; hand signals he described as 'something I'd expect from football fans', rather insulting signs being held up, people bashing on the side of the bus and he said he was glad he couldn't hear what they were saying but could imagine it from reading their lips. Now tell me, what sort of sad individual can actually take time out of his own life to go and act that way toward visiting rugby teams? Yep, precisely the kind of sad and useless individual who does that at football matches in England. England has its chavs, Wales has chavs too.

However, there was a difference when Greenwood went there; England had become a fearsome team, hardened in test rugby against the best in the world and on the way to the very top, and the players could truly convince themselves 'they hate us because they fear us', instead of just repeating the mantra hoping it'll work. This England team has an immense amount of talent (as has this Welsh team) but hasn't reached that level of maturity and the Welsh team does have that maturity and experience; if and when England do achieve that maturity, it will be a different story when they visit Cardiff. Perhaps this Wales team is close to its peak, while England are still building towards their peak; there are still two 6 nations tournaments before the next world cup, so the timing of when to reach a peak is going to be interesting. Personally I think Stuart Lancaster is on course, Chris Robshaw is absolutely the right captain, and Saturday's experience will make them a better team.

Wales have got real leaders on the pitch right now, aside from who's captain for the day; Sam Warburton has come back from a massive disappointment of being sent off (harshly imo, a yellow would have sufficed as I don't think the 'spear tackle' was deliberate) against the All Blacks in the world cup and is now a real hardened leader in the pack. In fact, of all the players in the 6 nations, he'd be my first pick in the back row for the Lions, and possibly captain. Gethin Jenkins is your real old hairy-arsed forward who can inspire people around him and Justin Tipuric steps up and leads by example. Think Johnson, Dallaglio, Hill and Vickery in 2003; all leaders in their own ways who inspired the people around them and could step up to the task at the right moment. Rob Howley seems to be a very patient and intelligent coach, almost in the Clive Woodward mode. They've worked hard to find the right mix and they've been through big disappointments together. England are still going through that process. It's not an excuse, it's just an observation that Wales and England are at different points in their development as teams; happily I think England are going the right way again, as opposed to the last 8 or 9 years of buggering about.

[Mich the Tester]

Dear England,

A lot of people paid good money to watch that game on Saturday. Next time, if you're not going to try and make a game of it, we'll let our womens team have a go at you.

Yours Sincerely,

Wales.

Dear Wales,

start by cutting the bloody ticket prices so that people can actually afford to take the whole family with them and have some cash left for fish and chips afterwards.

Oh, and I believe England women beat Wales women at the weekend.

Yours sincerely,

England



ps, imho all the unions charge too much for international games, not just the WRU