The end result of bobville, you'll never retire

[eek]

One of them being you..haha. everyone wants to retire.

If a company can get the same job done cheaper they will employ them, as they employ you for your services. Seems as if you can only (try and) get ahead by putting others down.

Whats your next topic, eastern Europeans!

Hang on when was I putting others down? My comment was that people (in general) don't think and most don't. Many people only think about the immediate issue and deal with that without regard to their longer term interests.

For instance, last year I saw a firm with 10 year long relationship with another company destroy it in a single phone call by refusing to negotiate over a very small (but poorly implemented) piece of work. Yes it resulted in that invoice being paid in full but all subsequent work went elsewhere.

As for eastern Europeans I think you'll have to find someone else to attack them. The ones I've met are as least as good as the locals if not better.

[MarillionFan]

My Indian colleagues asked me earlier which county in Europe would be best for them to come and work in.

I suggested Germany, then Sweden, Norway, Finland and Iceland for the best wages and opportunities, telling them to avoid the PIGS countries and France.

What about England? I was asked.

Don't bother I told them. It's like shooting fish in a barrel in the UK, poorly educated, not very intelligent and the rates are crap.

Fair enough they said. We want at least SOME Competition.

[NotAllThere]

...

As for eastern Europeans I think you'll have to find someone else to attack them. The ones I've met are as least as good as the locals if not better.

And getting more expensive, which is good.

[original PM]

I have recently been tranisistioning a lot of the service/suppport items I have picked up along the way to a new team.

And the problem is (as highlighted by someone else) they do not know how to think - every time they come across a problem they call me and ask what we did last time this happened - I then have to explain it has not happened before it is a new problem

to which they reply well who do i give it to you to fix?

all these muppets want to do is take a query, pass it on to someone who can fix it and then actually chase that person who is fixing it every ten minutes until it is done

I wonder if we have similar problems across other industry sector - e.g. the young expecting everything on a plate and a phone number of someone who can fix it if things get a bit tough?

It is actually a cause of the way we educate and bring our kids up - when I was at uni there was some help available but in general you were expected to fend for yourself - nowadays all the kids are spoon fed.

[Ignis Fatuus]

I have recently been tranisistioning a lot of the service/suppport items I have picked up along the way to a new team.

And the problem is (as highlighted by someone else) they do not know how to think - every time they come across a problem they call me and ask what we did last time this happened - I then have to explain it has not happened before it is a new problem

to which they reply well who do i give it to you to fix?

all these muppets want to do is take a query, pass it on to someone who can fix it and then actually chase that person who is fixing it every ten minutes until it is done

I wonder if we have similar problems across other industry sector - e.g. the young expecting everything on a plate and a phone number of someone who can fix it if things get a bit tough?

It is actually a cause of the way we educate and bring our kids up - when I was at uni there was some help available but in general you were expected to fend for yourself - nowadays all the kids are spoon fed.

Isn't that the definition of First Line Support?

Or do you prefer Dogbert's Tech Support?

[eek]

Isn't that the definition of First Line Support?

Or do you prefer Dogbert's Tech Support?

That's fine if its first line support doing it. The number of times the supposed third tier expert does it is far too frequent.

[Old Hack]

I think there is a gap in the market for this. I always compare Orange and Three - you get more for your money in terms of phone, minutes etc from three but I can't stand calling their customer services. Just the other day I had to spend an hour telling the guys I am not interested in another contract.

I think people will return to the UK in future, especially with IT costs increasing in India, the pound losing value and increased globalisation... There is a future for technical people in the UK, I think.

This is just a cyclic thing; as standards of living increase in India, as will wages, and people will simply go home. There's already talk from lots of IT companies in India who are now outsourcing to China, as even they cannot keep up with demand, then china will catch up with wages, etc, etc, etc.

I love, absolutely love all the doom and gloom talk in the UK, as it means fewer and fewer people are actually doing Computer Science, etc, at University, which means more phone calls for me. I am in a very niche area aswell, which helps, and not many people are entering.

[minestrone]

As for eastern Europeans I think you'll have to find someone else to attack them. The ones I've met are as least as good as the locals if not better.

Not my impression.

[Mich the Tester]

Attention, CIOs: Stop outsourcing or YOU will never retire ? The Register

I mean would you tell your children to go into IT?

Reaction on el reg from 'the other hobbes', worth reading;

Rather than moaning at schools and colleges for not turning out oiks that are docile enough and smart enough - but not too smart - management could begin by admitting that most of the 'top talent' is parasitic and useless.

Any moron can cut costs by spending less. Currently those morons often have the top jobs. What's needed is a clear-out of the top levels, which replaces those morons with people who know what strategy is and understand that actions have medium-and long-term consequences on profits, and short-term gains can create long-term disasters.

[Mich the Tester]

This is just a cyclic thing; as standards of living increase in India, as will wages, and people will simply go home. There's already talk from lots of IT companies in India who are now outsourcing to China, as even they cannot keep up with demand, then china will catch up with wages, etc, etc, etc.

I love, absolutely love all the doom and gloom talk in the UK, as it means fewer and fewer people are actually doing Computer Science, etc, at University, which means more phone calls for me. I am in a very niche area aswell, which helps, and not many people are entering.

The wage inflation in India seems to be something too complicated for many so-called top managers to comprehend. They read their parochial little national papers and send angry moaning letters to the Telegraph but don't seem to look further. A quick look at the Times of India will demonstrate that outsourcing to low wage countries for cost savings is not a viable long term strategy because of structural wage inflation and high staff turnover. Now of course, outsourcing to combine skills and expertise from overseas with local expertise might work well, but if you want skills and expertise you'll have to pay for it, whether you buy it in the UK, somewhere on 'le continent' or in India or even Obscuristan or whatever other place is next to be in vogue for offshoring.

Salaries rose by up to 27% in FY12 amid high inflation - The Times of India