Europe

[doodab]

Can anyone explain exactly what the UK can additionally opt out of, sensibly that they couldn´t negotiate within the EU?

Endless bulltulip from the media and politicians?

[BlasterBates]

Lets face it if Europe goes down the pan we go down the pan with it. If you want to extricate yourself from Europe you have to stop doing business there which means you have a smaller economy. So it seems to me the logic is lets all take a massive cut in our standard of living so if Europe does go down the pan then our low standard of living can be maintained.

[formant]

If the UK cannot influence Europe to its own ends then what is the point of being in the EU? Is it that we should be in it "for the sake of it"? to be cool and forward thinking? Is this why we should surrender our sovereignty (which is where this whole thing is headed).
By staying out we can negotiate our own position and if the governments decision prove to be unpopular with the electorate then we change the government and re negotiate those terms.

You're the one who thinks we're not getting our way within the UK. That's why I'm asking you why you are so convinced we'll be in a better position once out. You seem to think leaving would put us into a position whereby we can dictate the terms (according to what our electorate wants). I don't see where you get that idea from.

I think we profit plenty from our membership. I think we have a lot more say now than we would if we weren't a member. And I think leaving - as hypothetical an idea as it may be - would be economic suicide.

[stevejohnson]

The Uk people are going to suffer tremendously if UK leave the EU and that is because of restricted labor and market, like Tony Blair said. Only banksters and richer people with international businesses will strive.

[sasguru]

The UK will be growing faster than Germany sas?

A shock change of course!

Aye. In this particular case due to government economic stimulus i.e. printing money.
Although in the long term there needs to be government intervention to regenerate our industry, like the government does in Germany.

[DodgyAgent]

You're the one who thinks we're not getting our way within the UK. That's why I'm asking you why you are so convinced we'll be in a better position once out. You seem to think leaving would put us into a position whereby we can dictate the terms (according to what our electorate wants). I don't see where you get that idea from.

I think we profit plenty from our membership. I think we have a lot more say now than we would if we weren't a member. And I think leaving - as hypothetical an idea as it may be - would be economic suicide.

You have missed the essence of my argument which is:

That the EU is growing into becoming a totalitarian dictatorship that will subsume us all. The financial collapse of economies in Europe will lead to the surrender of sovereignty to a central bank that will be dominated by Germany.

As I said I have very strong vested interests in open labour markets and a single currency because 70% of my billings come from the EU.

I see no reason why (apart from the Euro of course) things will change much in Europe if we are out of it. OK we may put a stop later in the year to Bulgarians and Romanian workers coming here - which will have more of an impact on professional engineers as the low and skilled labour is probably already here.
It may be that we will not be able to influence say working hours are determined, but if we do not like the EUs working time directive we can simply not implement it and if we like them we can adopt them.
The pooling of standards of hazardous products, standards of safety in electricity networks, water etc will not change for us either.
I dont see any logical argument powerful enough to dissuade the UK from leaving.

[DodgyAgent]

The Uk people are going to suffer tremendously if UK leave the EU and that is because of restricted labor and market, like Tony Blair said. Only banksters and richer people with international businesses will strive.

What on earth do you mean?

[formant]

You have missed the essence of my argument which is:

That the EU is growing into becoming a totalitarian dictatorship that will subsume us all. The financial collapse of economies in Europe will lead to the surrender of sovereignty to a central bank that will be dominated by Germany.

I'm not sure I'd call that an 'argument' - more like a pretty absurd case of paranoia.

I dont see any logical argument powerful enough to dissuade the UK from leaving.

That's because you think leaving would be simple and straight forward. You're not interested in the likely cost, time-frame and legislative nightmare an EU exit would bring about. I'm not surprised about what you don't "see" in this case.

[DodgyAgent]

[QUOTE=formant;1695738]I'm not sure I'd call that an 'argument' - more like a pretty absurd case of paranoia.



That's because you think leaving would be simple and straight forward. You're not interested in the likely cost, time-frame and legislative nightmare an EU exit would bring about. I'm not surprised about what you don't "see" in this case.[/QUOT

Do you read any history?

Show me an example of a superstate (or any state for that matter) that has little democratic accountability that serves its people.

Do you really think the human race has changed and that we can now dismantle democratic controls over those that rule us?

Or have you become so smug and safe with the status quo that you really believe that nothing could change?

Greece is already locked into chaos for the foreseeable future and relies on the Germans to hold back revolutionary forces. Or is Greece too far away and too small to matter?

[formant]

Greece is already locked into chaos for the foreseeable future and relies on the Germans to hold back revolutionary forces. Or is Greece too far away and too small to matter?

Then surely it would be in everyone's interest if we kicked Greece out. Except that leaves us with the same issue - there's no precedent and no provision for kicking anyone out. Same as there's no precedent or provision for leaving. So it can't be as simple and straight forward as you think it is.

I don't buy into your paranoia, so I won't entertain it. I find it quite amusing though.

A German-run superstate? Mwahahaha! Maybe I won't give up my German citizenship just yet.