NHS could save billions replacing paper with really expensive machines....

[formant]

Doctors love people who turn up with print outs from the web, 15 minutes on google equals a medical degree don't you know.

Unfortunately a medical degree also doesn't equal common sense.

<I have a whinge, too>
About a year and a half ago my other half was "diagnosed" with high blood pressure (solely based on two readings), no other physical indications or symptoms. Funnily enough he only ever had high blood pressure at the doctor's office, not when measured at the gym. But it was a stressful time in his life so he accepted that maybe there was something to it. They ran various tests and there were never any physical causes found for the alleged high blood pressure - he was in excellent shape. They put him on meds and as all this co-incided with our house-purchase, this messed up his chances of getting Critical Illness cover. Great. Anyway, he's been on the meds ever since and more recently started feeling faint and actually fainting on several occasions, along with other textbook symptoms of low blood pressure. Went to the doctor, blood pressure taken, reading was high again. Doctor wants to prescribe a higher dose of the meds, not interested in his actual symptoms. OH asks about White Coat Hypertension - doctor ignores it. He goes home, borrows blood pressure monitor from neighbour and starts recording his own readings -all ranging between low and perfect. Back to the doctor with said readings - "Oh I'm glad you did that, I'd have upped your meds and that would have been pretty dangerous *insert girly giggle*". So finally she admitted it must be White Coat Hypertension, after over a year on the meds (now off them entirely) and after this misdiagnosis preventing him from getting insurance. So from the start there was nothing wrong with him, but because they went by nothing other than the reading and completely ignored the symptoms and other explanations, he's had to go through all this hassle and it's consequences.

Yeah, I don't have a whole lot of faith in GPs. Some may be good, but some are really a bit on the ignorant side.
So I'm not surprised people come along with Google diagnoses.

</whinge>

[Robinho]

It isn't, but that's a different matter; the poster suggested standardising the way hospitals are run and suggested that part of the problem is different doctors and nurses working in different ways; I think that diverse approaches are more likely to lead to progress than standardisation.

This is why a government enforced monopoly on health is bad.

[minestrone]

I appreciate that, but I think it's fair to say that a GP is unlikely to be up to date on the research on every patient's different condition, and, when the patient has gone to the trouble to find some mainstream research that they'd like to discuss, the GP could at least do the courtesy of explaining why she disagrees.

I think the problem is that you can find evidence to support just about any view, but in this case I was trying to find out what the reference range meant, and it's clear that 95% of people have a lower TSH than me. If she doesn't think that getting me to a place where 95% of people are may give me a chance of feeling better, I'd like to understand why. FWIW, if I was in the USA, my values would not be considered normal - they have a much lower upper limit. Things are rarely black and white, and they should be prepared to discuss stuff.

Well you sound like you know what is wrong with you, just get the pills off the web as well and save the NHS the time and the money.

[bobspud]

I'm not talking about admin staff but medical staff; they need the space to use the brains they've trained during the years of very expensive education they've been given.

For every fantastic genius there are at least a dozen normal guys going through the motions.

Bupa seems to do well and have some of the top brains. I wonder if they let everyone do things their own way...

[Mich the Tester]

This is why a government enforced monopoly on health is bad.

Firstly, NHS is not a government enforced monopoly; it's the biggest provider by far, but there are private providers for most care in the UK.

Secondly, in your ideal world of privatised healthcare what actually happens is that an oligopoly of big insurers, trained in Bizzinezz Studies and Marketing tell doctors and nurses who are trained in medicine how to do their jobs and fook it up just as royally as governments while overcharging customers for the pleasure.

[Mich the Tester]

For every fantastic genius there are at least a dozen normal guys going through the motions.

Bupa seems to do well and have some of the top brains. I wonder if they let everyone do things their own way...

Well, if you've paid the money to hire the best, you don't necessarily need to tell them how to do their jobs.

[mudskipper]

Well you sound like you know what is wrong with you, just get the pills off the web as well and save the NHS the time and the money.

The point is that I still feel like tulipe. So, my thyroid is cured, but my symptoms remain. Either a) my thyroid is not completely cured, or b) there's something else wrong as well that causes similar symptoms to hypothyroidism, or c) I'm making it up / a hypochondriac.

By refusing to entertain a) or b), the doctor's default position must be c. It's this kind of arrogance that means people enter the surgery with printouts from google.

[vetran]

Well you sound like you know what is wrong with you, just get the pills off the web as well and save the NHS the time and the money.

Sorry Minestrone You sound like some managers I have worked for they thought only they knew the 'right' way and blustered similarly. Pride cometh before a disbarment?

If the patient researches carefully and presents information respectfully they may well change the doctor (or other experts mind), I have frequently collected data and had it corrected by a competent user because they mention an obscure use case which changes the solution completely.

[Mich the Tester]

The point is that I still feel like tulipe. So, my thyroid is cured, but my symptoms remain. Either a) my thyroid is not completely cured, or b) there's something else wrong as well that causes similar symptoms to hypothyroidism, or c) I'm making it up / a hypochondriac.

By refusing to entertain a) or b), the doctor's default position must be c. It's this kind of arrogance that means people enter the surgery with printouts from google.

Or that your condition requires more observation; one problem is that doctors spend a lot of their time dealing with thicko's and don't believe they can explain what they're trying to do; you need to ask him what his approach is going to be and be fair, if he needs to give it some time and see if it improves in a few weeks then you have to give it a chance. Lots of people go to the doctor with complaints that spontaneously go away and somehow the doc has to filter that out.

[Robinho]

Firstly, NHS is not a government enforced monopoly; it's the biggest provider by far, but there are private providers for most care in the UK.

Yes it is, everyone is forced to pay for the NHS.

Secondly, in your ideal world of privatised healthcare what actually happens is that an oligopoly of big insurers, trained in Bizzinezz Studies and Marketing tell doctors and nurses who are trained in medicine how to do their jobs and fook it up just as royally as governments while overcharging customers for the pleasure.

/tinHat