Child Benefit

[EternalOptimist]

VAT is only a tax on spending. NI is more insidious although you do get a pension back, although has anyone ever worked out approximately what a typical person contributes over their working life against what they would get back after retirement if they live to average age?

good question. I was looking at something similar , and came up with this -

assume 10% of your contributions went to a pension
assume 30k pa = 3,000
assume 35 years of work = 105 k contributions
value after growth = 4% = 210k

assume annuity of 7% = £147 per week

actual pension = £107


not a good deal really

[formant]

Lots of people can live of £71/wk if they're also getting housing benefit.

You don't get housing benefit unless your entire household has next to no income. Which was my point really - benefits in the UK only help those who are situated low enough on the social scale to qualify for more than just JSA, because JSA alone isn't livable.

Also, you don't qualify for SMI (support for mortgage interest) until you are on income based JSA (so after your contributions based JSA runs out (6 months) and only if there are no other earners in the household). So as a homeowner the welfare system is of no use to you.

[d000hg]

You don't get housing benefit unless your entire household has next to no income.

I'm not quite sure that's true, I claimed housing benefits for a few months when I lived in a house with 3 other people 10 years ago, and a friend did the same only last summer.

Which was my point really - benefits in the UK only help those who are situated low enough on the social scale to qualify for more than just JSA, because JSA alone isn't livable.

£71 is enough to buy food. If you have multiple earners - husband & wife - then you shouldn't choose to live somewhere where the rent/mortgage alone is more than one of your salaries, that's just too high risk.

The benefits system isn't supposed to let middle-class families continue their middle-class life, or to help you keep a £400k house, but to provide a minimum level of support. If you lose your job then switch your mortgage to interest only (or even ask for a payment holiday), stop subscribing to Sky and start shopping in Lidl.

[formant]

I'm not quite sure that's true, I claimed housing benefits for a few months when I lived in a house with 3 other people 10 years ago, and a friend did the same only last summer.

Housemates aren't part of HMRC's definition of 'household'. That only includes your partner/spouse or family living with you.

£71 is enough to buy food. If you have multiple earners - husband & wife - then you shouldn't choose to live somewhere where the rent/mortgage alone is more than one of your salaries, that's just too high risk.

Rent/mortgage doesn't have to be more than one of the salaries for money to very suddenly become an issue when one earner ceases to earn - there are other, less flexible regular outgoings, such as childcare for example, as well as numerous other things that often come in yearly contracts.

The benefits system isn't supposed to let middle-class families continue their middle-class life, or to help you keep a £400k house, but to provide a minimum level of support. If you lose your job then switch your mortgage to interest only (or even ask for a payment holiday), stop subscribing to Sky and start shopping in Lidl.

So who is it for then, all those who really are never going to get out of their ditch? I sure prefer paying taxes knowing that when times get tough, my life isn't going to instantly be messed up. Several countries provide exactly that kind of safety net - Germany being the system I'm most familiar with.

Switching mortgages to interest only or taking a payment holiday only works if your bank feels like granting it. Not something anyone can rely on.

[psychocandy]

I'm not quite sure that's true, I claimed housing benefits for a few months when I lived in a house with 3 other people 10 years ago, and a friend did the same only last summer.

£71 is enough to buy food. If you have multiple earners - husband & wife - then you shouldn't choose to live somewhere where the rent/mortgage alone is more than one of your salaries, that's just too high risk.

The benefits system isn't supposed to let middle-class families continue their middle-class life, or to help you keep a £400k house, but to provide a minimum level of support. If you lose your job then switch your mortgage to interest only (or even ask for a payment holiday), stop subscribing to Sky and start shopping in Lidl.

True enough, bit as formant says, if someone else earns you'll get bugger all else. I've been in the position having been redundant. You pay shedloads of tax for years then lose your job.

Go to jobcentre and they tell your because your partner earns £12K a year, all you get is £71 a week, and its tough tulip about the mortgage.

But, if you pop out 5 sprogs before you get to 20, you'll get a 6 bedroom house paid for by the government.

My wife's extended family are all dole scroungers. When the girl gets to 16 (or even earlier) its just assumed she will pop one out to get a house. and it works every time. None of them work and none of them ever intend to. Benefits pays for their housing and enough money for fags and booze so they're happy.

[d000hg]

So who is it for then, all those who really are never going to get out of their ditch? I sure prefer paying taxes knowing that when times get tough, my life isn't going to instantly be messed up.

The entire point of the Welfare State is to in theory mean everyone is provided a livable existence... a roof over their head, food to eat and education + healthcare. Middle class people struggling after they over-extend themselves are not the target, but those in poverty. It's not intended to be fair so you get back what you put in, it's social action funded by the taxes of those who have money to help those who don't.

Sure you can find countries which will give you more, but then they have higher taxes in the first place. On the other hand, you could take responsibility and take out unemployment/sickness insurance. Why should MY taxes be spent on posh nurseries and BMW upkeep - sell your BMW and if one of you is unemployed, take the children out of childcare and bring them up yourself.

[Scrag Meister]

I actually received approx 75% of a normal monthly payment yesterday, presumably to cover up to the termination date.

Fair enough.

Thanks CB I won't miss you.

[escapeUK]

The entire point of the Welfare State is to in theory mean everyone is provided a livable existence... a roof over their head, food to eat and education + healthcare.

Its a complete joke. One of my relations, bought a house while on benefits and has 10 years later paid the mortgage off. Thanks tax payers! No kids either.

Another cant work (as he is 20 stone overweight "bad back") and gets free council flat, no tax, enough money to over eat to that extent etc etc

Its a life of Riley and dont let anyone tell you different.

[The Spartan]

Its a life of Riley and dont let anyone tell you different.

Agreed I know a lot of people who got the right to buy the council homes they had lived in and they got a massive discount based on how much rent they had paid since living there. Funny thing is as they got benefits they didn't pay diddly squat towards it, but still received the discount.

[psychocandy]

The entire point of the Welfare State is to in theory mean everyone is provided a livable existence... a roof over their head, food to eat and education + healthcare. Middle class people struggling after they over-extend themselves are not the target, but those in poverty. It's not intended to be fair so you get back what you put in, it's social action funded by the taxes of those who have money to help those who don't.

Sure you can find countries which will give you more, but then they have higher taxes in the first place. On the other hand, you could take responsibility and take out unemployment/sickness insurance. Why should MY taxes be spent on posh nurseries and BMW upkeep - sell your BMW and if one of you is unemployed, take the children out of childcare and bring them up yourself.

Whilst this is true, I'd rather my taxes went to a hard working family who've had a bit of bad luck (and have themselves paid taxes) and need a bit of support for a short time to get back on their feet than someone who never has, and never plans to work.