Reply to: Child Benefit

[formant]

Aye but don't you pay more tax on 40k than you do on say 20K?

+1
Precisely.

[The Spartan]

If you want a system that acts as free income protection insurance, you'd have to pay more tax.

Aye but don't you pay more tax on 40k than you do on say 20K?

[vetran]

Good because we don't have that. What we have is a system which disproportionally favours the poorest simply because they have so little to start with.

No we have a welfare system that rewards non contributors & the intentionally idle but excludes the frugal.

Make long term unemployed do some form of work, you will be surprised how many stop claiming. I know of a number claiming & working.

To get on the benefits takes a time but once you are on it seems impossible to get them off.

Help the ones who are on the edge of working but discouraged because benefits are more than work (make benefits less than minimum wage). I know of two families that fell into this trap.

Train / assist the ones who lose jobs and actively assist them into new ones. I have a neighbour determined to work but who is offered no opportunity to make himself more attractive to employers with free training.

Maybe pay recruitment agents a portion of saved benefits for finding long term unemployed > 1 year a permanent job.

Allow those temporarily unemployed to borrow / delay payments to maintain basics such as mortgage payments (mandatory mortgage holidays without extra interest or stupid arrangement fees).

As far as I can see if someone loses their job the vultures circle, the banks up their rates and the council starts sending the debt collector round.

A zero / low interest loan secured against the persons property that can be repaid when back in work would help avoid the hardship people experience.

[d000hg]

I don't believe in a welfare system that's exclusively for the bottom feeders.

Good because we don't have that. What we have is a system which disproportionally favours the poorest simply because they have so little to start with.

If you want a system that acts as free income protection insurance, you'd have to pay more tax.

[stek]

Child Benefit

All of which makes me glad I don't live in the South-East but, instead, in Wales.

And its nicer here anyway! (although I will preclude Newport from that statement because I know a few on this thread who will have had first hand experience of this place). :-)

What about Port Toilet?

[psychocandy]

It'll crash one day, it will have to, unless the banks change ratios of mortgage. I defintely see 50 year mortgages coming the norm if they want house prices to keep rising. At the moment, in the South East, to need 2 people earning 40k to be able to afford even vaguely presentable accomodation. The tenant in one of my houses, a bungalow, tells me he can't afford to buy the house, despite wanting to, and he's closer to 75k. Madness.

All of which makes me glad I don't live in the South-East but, instead, in Wales.

And its nicer here anyway! (although I will preclude Newport from that statement because I know a few on this thread who will have had first hand experience of this place). :-)

[psychocandy]

Me too. d000hgs hard and fast rules simply don't address all of the proper issues at hand. Germany, Norway and other countries have it well sorted out, as do France strangely.

Which may be why all the immigrants strangely land up in the UK? Because they can get more benefits even if they have never contributed and never intend to.

[psychocandy]

So work in Middle management, with your wife at home, living within your means for 35 years and suddenly you face unemployment, and you have £50k saved.

What happens when this mans money runs down?

Does he deserve to have to live on £71 a week after paying in for 35 years?

Really?

Exactly. Surely someone whos worked for years and paid taxes deserves better treatment than a benefit lifestyler whos never worked....

Got big issue with that because its happened to me in the past. And you are fooked when it does because they dont want to know.

[vetran]

Why change tax code for marriage? Because they've taken away legal aid for family law and people need to save up for the divorce?

Because statistically married couples cost the state less than other forms of relationships?


Wage inflation will have to come or a house price crash. My money is on the former if they fix the current skewed situation holding wages down.

Agree it was easier 20 years ago than right now but frankly its still possible if your wages are rising, I started at 22 by my mid 30's I was at a peak earning potential (have since earned in real terms more but mid 30's was a high point). I think (hope) this will be seen as a Plateau and another rise is coming.

[formant]

Well for me it's simple.

If you're working and have kids you get a different tax code to those who aren't. Same with marriage. Don't take the money in the first place.

Why change tax code for marriage? Because they've taken away legal aid for family law and people need to save up for the divorce?

[MarillionFan]

Well for me it's simple.

If you're working and have kids you get a different tax code to those who aren't. Same with marriage. Don't take the money in the first place.

[formant]

It'll crash one day, it will have to, unless the banks change ratios of mortgage. I defintely see 50 year mortgages coming the norm if they want house prices to keep rising. At the moment, in the South East, to need 2 people earning 40k to be able to afford even vaguely presentable accomodation. The tenant in one of my houses, a bungalow, tells me he can't afford to buy the house, despite wanting to, and he's closer to 75k. Madness.

Yeah, the South East is particuarly bad in that (well, by 'bad' I mean expensive). We lived in Buckinghamshire before buying our current place. We were on just under 70k combined at the time and got an Agreement in Principle for up to 250k. We ended up moving to a bit further north to Northamptonshire and spending less than that on quite a sizable and presentable place, as staying within the Home Counties would have meant we'd have had to settle for something tiny or ex-local authority. *shudder*

[Old Hack]

Easy to do in a rising house market. Not so easy now.

I pity the youngsters these days who have not had the benefit of massive house price inflation caused by easy credit.

It'll crash one day, it will have to, unless the banks change ratios of mortgage. I defintely see 50 year mortgages coming the norm if they want house prices to keep rising. At the moment, in the South East, to need 2 people earning 40k to be able to afford even vaguely presentable accomodation. The tenant in one of my houses, a bungalow, tells me he can't afford to buy the house, despite wanting to, and he's closer to 75k. Madness.

[BrilloPad]

you forget that the more you risk the more you gain.

My First house was 2.5 times combined Salary, that trebled in value to allow me to buy a house 10 times my Salary with a mortgage of 3 times my Salary.


Now if we hadn't pushed ourselves we would be living a 2 bedroom flat.

Easy to do in a rising house market. Not so easy now.

I pity the youngsters these days who have not had the benefit of massive house price inflation caused by easy credit.

[Old Hack]

Completely agree with formant here. I think that it makes economic sense to support people who have lost a job after contributing for years rather than punishing them by giving them the absolute minimum. Keeping someone in their home, not causing depression through worry and giving them breathing space to find a new job has to be better than giving them the absolute minimum.

Me too. d000hgs hard and fast rules simply don't address all of the proper issues at hand. Germany, Norway and other countries have it well sorted out, as do France strangely.