Redundancy….

[Gruffalo]

We have a new IT director with an axe to wield, to the point people are signing Another One Bites The Dust……

4.5 years on the payroll, with 12 weeks notice.

There are four of us, I was just told being axed to 2, and I am not one of them, but no other explanation given.

We also have a couple of contractors from a third party also working with the team doing same role as myself. Thought that could not be the case with redundancy?

Anyone got any idea of the kind of things I should be asking HR about. With regards to getitng the best possible leaving deal and holding my head high. I have union membership, not that I am expecting a lot from them, but any port and all of that…..

Got no idea if I will be chained begrudgingly to the desk for 12 weeks or allowed on garden leave with the money, hoping to get that sorted on Monday.

Also, what are the best jobsites these days? Still Jobserve, CwJobs, Monster and Jobsite – any others to look out for? Looking into both permie and contracts. Contract would be good for a bit to chip away at the mortgage millstone.

Worse case scenario I have 20 weeks money coming my way as I also have 3 weeks hols to get the dosh for, I am assuming I have the option to take the holiday money and not the time?

Bit of a downer for a Friday

[mudskipper]

We have a new IT director with an axe to wield, to the point people are signing Another One Bites The Dust……

4.5 years on the payroll, with 12 weeks notice.

There are four of us, I was just told being axed to 2, and I am not one of them, but no other explanation given.

We also have a couple of contractors from a third party also working with the team doing same role as myself. Thought that could not be the case with redundancy?

Anyone got any idea of the kind of things I should be asking HR about. With regards to getitng the best possible leaving deal and holding my head high. I have union membership, not that I am expecting a lot from them, but any port and all of that…..

Got no idea if I will be chained begrudgingly to the desk for 12 weeks or allowed on garden leave with the money, hoping to get that sorted on Monday.

Also, what are the best jobsites these days? Still Jobserve, CwJobs, Monster and Jobsite – any others to look out for? Looking into both permie and contracts. Contract would be good for a bit to chip away at the mortgage millstone.

Worse case scenario I have 20 weeks money coming my way as I also have 3 weeks hols to get the dosh for, I am assuming I have the option to take the holiday money and not the time?

Bit of a downer for a Friday

OK - assuming it's a serious question.

To select people for redundancy, the company has to follow certain procedures. There should be objective selection criteria, which you should have been scored against. You are entitled to see that criteria and your scores. Yes - you're right - you can only be made redundant if there is no suitable role for you. If there are contractors and they really are doing the same job, you have a good argument. Probably not one you'll win, but if you give them the impression you'll make life difficult, you might well get an enhanced payout on condition that you shut up.

Useful links here
Redundancy: your rights to consultation : Directgov - Employment
Redundancy selections and notice periods : Directgov - Employment

Also, ACAS have a helpline which is pretty good.

[OwlHoot]

We have a new IT director with an axe to wield, to the point people are signing Another One Bites The Dust……

4.5 years on the payroll, with 12 weeks notice.

There are four of us, I was just told being axed to 2, and I am not one of them, but no other explanation given.

We also have a couple of contractors from a third party also working with the team doing same role as myself. Thought that could not be the case with redundancy?

Anyone got any idea of the kind of things I should be asking HR about. With regards to getitng the best possible leaving deal and holding my head high. I have union membership, not that I am expecting a lot from them, but any port and all of that…..

Got no idea if I will be chained begrudgingly to the desk for 12 weeks or allowed on garden leave with the money, hoping to get that sorted on Monday.

Also, what are the best jobsites these days? Still Jobserve, CwJobs, Monster and Jobsite – any others to look out for? Looking into both permie and contracts. Contract would be good for a bit to chip away at the mortgage millstone.

Worse case scenario I have 20 weeks money coming my way as I also have 3 weeks hols to get the dosh for, I am assuming I have the option to take the holiday money and not the time?

Bit of a downer for a Friday

Hey Wilmslow, now your old boss has left, what's stopping you going back to posting under your old name?

But seriously, good luck with the redundancy. There must be plenty of web sites that detail your rights etc.

[eek]

We have a new IT director with an axe to wield, to the point people are signing Another One Bites The Dust……

4.5 years on the payroll, with 12 weeks notice.

There are four of us, I was just told being axed to 2, and I am not one of them, but no other explanation given.

We also have a couple of contractors from a third party also working with the team doing same role as myself. Thought that could not be the case with redundancy?

Anyone got any idea of the kind of things I should be asking HR about. With regards to getitng the best possible leaving deal and holding my head high. I have union membership, not that I am expecting a lot from them, but any port and all of that…..

Got no idea if I will be chained begrudgingly to the desk for 12 weeks or allowed on garden leave with the money, hoping to get that sorted on Monday.

Also, what are the best jobsites these days? Still Jobserve, CwJobs, Monster and Jobsite – any others to look out for? Looking into both permie and contracts. Contract would be good for a bit to chip away at the mortgage millstone.

Worse case scenario I have 20 weeks money coming my way as I also have 3 weeks hols to get the dosh for, I am assuming I have the option to take the holiday money and not the time?

Bit of a downer for a Friday

Actually the one things unions are good at are legal advice. Go and ask them.

Beyond that keep your chin up and good luck with the job search.

[Zippy]

I worked (as a contractor) at a co that decided on redundancy via a competitive process (basically they told them that 'the 'best' <bootlickers> would be retained and they were in competition with their workmates - nice atmosphere). I was appalled by how they treated the permies but they still used contractors. Good for me but very bitter permies thay had changed into jobsworths.
No, they can't just dump you if your job still exists (and you are doing it as per their expectations/criteria). Having said that, I've been involved in similar bloodlettings before and the people who got axed got a decent sum because - essentially - they were being unfairly dismissed.
Read up on the links Mudskipper posted and ask some awkward questions during your chat with Human Remains. Also, ostentatiously take notes
Your co should support you in finding a new job, so do see how you can maximise that benefit (courses?)

I really hope you get gardening leave. Stick the cv on the usual boards, read the threads about dealing with agents/ltds/rates and come and join the dark side. It really ain't that bad (apart from the agents)

All the best!

[Paddy]

As far as I know there is no criteria for selecting people for redundancy. One thing that sticks in my memory is when I was contracting for a multinational company in Holland. A memo came from the US saying that they want 10% redundancies ASAP. The Dutch HR sent a memo back saying they cannot do that under Dutch law because the company is still in profit. The reply back was; OK. Make the number up by making more redundancies in the UK office.

[Robinho]

I once got made redundant 2 months into a permie job. And no joke, i got a 13k payout.

That was a good summer.

[fullyautomatix]

Wilmslow, take this as a positive development and move on. Wasnt this the director who had a go at you for posting about him on this forum ?

[alluvial]

Sorry, I haven't got any useful advice apart from make sure that you clear out the stationary cupboard before you go. You never know when those little bits of metal on the ends of a bit of green string will come in handy.

[escapeUK]

No, they can't just dump you if your job still exists (and you are doing it as per their expectations/criteria). Having said that, I've been involved in similar bloodlettings before and the people who got axed got a decent sum because - essentially - they were being unfairly dismissed.

I do laugh at things like this. If any companies want to hire me as a consultant to show them how to dump people just send me a PM.

My last permie company was brilliant at this. All you need to do is first warn everyone that their job is at threat, if you want you can send everyone an e-mail or memo asking for cost cutting ideas or efficiencies. This really makes you look like you are a caring interested employer and you took every step possible to avoid nasty redundancies. If it comes to tribunal, which it never does if you follow the correct steps as the lawyers advise their client they have no case. No one will come forward with any ideas, they never do. You can also ask for volunteers at this stage, which again looks good and sometimes you get someone who was close to retirement who will volunteer. This may or may not fit in with your plans, but can be fixed in the next step if not.

Then do a little scoring matrix and you just make sure that whoever you want to get rid of scores 1/2 a point less than those you want to keep. Then, a few months later you just bring someone new in and give them a new title and or job responsibilities. It may well be that you got rid of Sales Estimators, and the new people are Sales Engineers or Administrators.

You then bring your victims in, tell them they can bring a colleague in as a witness if they would like (most dont as most colleagues dont want to bring their head into the redundancy sites) , but make sure there are two managers in there and minute everything. Explain the scoring matrix you used, ideally get them to agree that it sounds fair in principle which it is. You might want to get them to sign something to this effect. You then go through their scores line by line, the scores they get sound reasonable so usually they will agree with them. Obviously you cant give someone with perfect attendance a 1/5, instead you score them lower on things like "adaptation to new technology" or "computer skills" or "flexibility".

Explain to them the procedure, make it all seem totally fair, you might even get them to sign a letter just saying that this is the procedure and we followed it kind of declaration.

Reveal to them the fact it was a close run thing, but unfortunately they scored a little below the other members of the team and have been selected for redundancy. Give them the right to appeal to the MD (a waste of time, very few take up this option)

If you totally follow the rules, document you following them, appear to be doing everything to prevent this situation and help them there is no chance of you being taken to a tribunal.

Im not saying any of this is right, but this is what you do. Ive seen it applied to lots of people, including one off on maternity leave and one having cancer treatment.