So Lance Armstrong is a liar and a cheat

[doomage]

Umm, not really a satisfactory distinction. Creatine is a commonly used supplement for speed, strength and speed endurance athletes and you can get more of it from a spoonful of supplement than from 5kg of steak, and it's legal. However, many meats contain growth hormones due to farming practices; would you consider growth hormones as a valid supplement?

Fair enough. Which is why I said you can't count raw meat. If you cook it the hormone will denature and probably just add to the flavour. <shrug> So growth hormone is not a valid supplement.

When I worked in the lab (previous life) I did a blood test after a pretty strenuous weights session at the gym. My CK (creatine kinase) level was so high one of my colleagues thought I'd had a massive heart attack.

[Mich the Tester]

Fair enough. Which is why I said you can't count raw meat. If you cook it the hormone will denature and probably just add to the flavour. <shrug> So growth hormone is not a valid supplement.

When I worked in the lab (previous life) I did a blood test after a pretty strenuous weights session at the gym. My CK (creatine kinase) level was so high one of my colleagues thought I'd had a massive heart attack.

Yep, and this illustrates one concern I have with the blood passport system; people who perform at a high level of sport push their bodies extremely hard, which leads to very high (or very low) values of some substances in the blood, if only temporarily; they might well be values that a 'normal individual' would struggle to survive. Add to that, it can't be surprising that unusually talented people have unusual values for all sorts of things, like leg length, relative position of tendons etc, but possibly also their blood. It's perhaps difficult to determine whether some unusual value is caused by doping, or is a natural thing at the extremes of human physiology which makes that person highly suited to a particular sport.

Basically, the winner of the TdF and the winner of the olympic 100 metres are at two extremes of the endurance-speed range, but both could be called 'freaks', in the nicest possible way.

[doomage]

Yep, and this illustrates one concern I have with the blood passport system; people who perform at a high level of sport push their bodies extremely hard, which leads to very high (or very low) values of some substances in the blood, if only temporarily; they might well be values that a 'normal individual' would struggle to survive. Add to that, it can't be surprising that unusually talented people have unusual values for all sorts of things, like leg length, relative position of tendons etc, but possibly also their blood. It's perhaps difficult to determine whether some unusual value is caused by doping, or is a natural thing at the extremes of human physiology which makes that person highly suited to a particular sport.

Maybe there should be a different set of normal ranges for athletes. They did say Armstrong had a much higher than average "lung capacity" hence why he used to win a lot. But that could have been a lie.

Tricky problem.

[BlasterBates]

Since doping is widespread why don't they just legalise it and award a trophy to the pharmaceutical company as well.

[Robinho]

Since doping is widespread why don't they just legalise it and award a trophy to the pharmaceutical company as well.

Bit like how F1 constructors get a trophy?

[Halo Jones]

I don’t know what the fuss is about I inject EPO every 5 days & I am still falling asleep at my desk…

[speling bee]

I don’t know what the fuss is about I inject EPO every 5 days & I am still falling asleep at my desk…

Dialysis?

[SupremeSpod]

Yeah, the bastard!

Ooops, thought this post was about the fake moon landings. You know as it seems to be "de rigeur" to have a go at dead blokes I thought I'd join in.

Sorry.

[speling bee]

Yeah, the bastard!

Ooops, thought this post was about the fake moon landings. You know as it seems to be "de rigeur" to have a go at dead blokes I thought I'd join in.

Sorry.

Only dead child rapists.

[Mich the Tester]

Since doping is widespread why don't they just legalise it and award a trophy to the pharmaceutical company as well.

Because these days it's felt that it's not good for sports bodies to encourage the use of very nasty substances.

Add to that, it would encourage a return to the days when the GDR, USSR et al ruined people's lives for the sake of medals. For every medal the GDR won, they made several cripples.