Benefit scrounging parasites from Europe

[doodab]

I never said i was going run the numbers. I explained the dynamics very clearly and nobody including yourself was able to counter it. Much like in a situation where A + B = C, it is possible to say C is larger than both A and B without having to plug in any particular values.

A = 1, B = -1

Q.E.D.

Your argument consisted of an assertion that "if you run the equations it's true", followed by a rapid climbdown when asked to back the statement up, where you stated that it wasn't possible to run the equations because there were none. I'd say that was countered.

if you run the equations it does work out, trust me.

I don't claim there to be an exact mathematical equation.

Happy?

Er, no. Aside from the lack of links to hard data what you have argued is that Scotland doesn't have a deficit when oil is counted (which is better than the UK as a whole manages) and if you discount oil it would overspend by about 1/6th of GDP, which of course means that the vast majority of Scottish public spending is paid for by taxation on other sectors.

One doesn't need to counter your arguments because you do it so effectively yourself.

[Mich the Tester]

If you do the sums you'll probably find that most people in any country in Europe take more from the state over the course of their lives than they pay in. Even without taking benefits for unemployment, sickness and so on, people use state education, state funded or subsidised healthcare, they use public facilities and after their working life they take a state pension and they recieve more healthcare. I believe the sums were done in Holland showing that only about 25% of taxpayers are net contributors to 'the system'; they are the people who earn the higher incomes and pay more tax than others. So what's happening in Scotland is nothing unusual; it's just that the press like to jump on these things and paint a black and white picture that's easily digested by the masses instead of the rather boring and unsensational nuances.

I'd also add that when you compare the economic production of different regions, or nations within one state, you need to remember a historical context; there have been times that Scotland, Wales, the North of England and Northern Ireland made huge contributions to the British economy; think of coal and steel, shipbuilding, and other heavy industries that have since declined. Right now, service businesses, primarily in England, are making a huge contribution to the economy, but that can change in future. In 20 years' time we might be sitting here wondering how, for example, the Welsh economy has overtaken the rest having take advantage of some new economic force, just as southern England has taken advantage of free financial markets and the growth of services, and it may be the Welsh complaining about subsidising everyone else. Maybe, but I don't know and neither do any of you lot.

[DimPrawn]

If you do the sums you'll probably find that most people in any country in Europe take more from the state over the course of their lives than they pay in. Even without taking benefits for unemployment, sickness and so on, people use state education, state funded or subsidised healthcare, they use public facilities and after their working life they take a state pension and they recieve more healthcare. I believe the sums were done in Holland showing that only about 25% of taxpayers are net contributors to 'the system'; they are the people who earn the higher incomes and pay more tax than others. So what's happening in Scotland is nothing unusual; it's just that the press like to jump on these things and paint a black and white picture that's easily digested by the masses instead of the rather boring and unsensational nuances.

I'd also add that when you compare the economic production of different regions, or nations within one state, you need to remember a historical context; there have been times that Scotland, Wales, the North of England and Northern Ireland made huge contributions to the British economy; think of coal and steel, shipbuilding, and other heavy industries that have since declined. Right now, service businesses, primarily in England, are making a huge contribution to the economy, but that can change in future. In 20 years' time we might be sitting here wondering how, for example, the Welsh economy has overtaken the rest having take advantage of some new economic force, just as southern England has taken advantage of free financial markets and the growth of services, and it may be the Welsh complaining about subsidising everyone else. Maybe, but I don't know and neither do any of you lot.

There's always one who goes and spoils it with a sensible, well thought out reply.

[d000hg]

Yes shush Mich, the idiot was talking.

[DodgyAgent]

There's always one who goes and spoils it with a sensible, well thought out reply.

He will never make it as a Daily Mail journalist

[Mich the Tester]

He will never make it as a Daily Mail journalist

Not so quick! For a decent rate I can do a 'these people...coming over here...living off our taxes...overpaid Eurocrats...yoof of today...political correctness gawn ma-a-a-d' rant; I know all the phrases, I just have to stick them together in a random order, throw in a bit of parochialism and stir. You get your cut, I become a millionaire. Boomed.

[EternalOptimist]

If what Mich is saying is true, that means the 'few' who are taking less are not only making up the shortfall of the many, but are also paying the massive costs of running it all, including leakage and losses.
that just doesn't sound right to me

[Mich the Tester]

If what Mich is saying is true, that means the 'few' who are taking less are not only making up the shortfall of the many, but are also paying the massive costs of running it all, including leakage and losses.
that just doesn't sound right to me

It's worse than that; the roughly 25% aren't able to make up the shortfall, leaving most developed economies chronically indebted.

[sasguru]

A = 1, B = -1

Q.E.D.

Your argument consisted of an assertion that "if you run the equations it's true", followed by a rapid climbdown when asked to back the statement up, where you stated that it wasn't possible to run the equations because there were none. I'd say that was countered.







Er, no. Aside from the lack of links to hard data what you have argued is that Scotland doesn't have a deficit when oil is counted (which is better than the UK as a whole manages) and if you discount oil it would overspend by about 1/6th of GDP, which of course means that the vast majority of Scottish public spending is paid for by taxation on other sectors.

One doesn't need to counter your arguments because you do it so effectively yourself.

Robby is the reason why parents sacrifice everything for their children's education.
I mean would you want any of your sprogs ending up as stupid and ignorant as he is?

[Robinho]

A = 1, B = -1

Q.E.D.

Touche. Never the less, nobody has been able to counter my argument. If jobs become obselete through efficiency saving these people will eventually be deployed elsewhere to utilise the freed up resources from the efficiency savings. This is why post industrial revolution and during the computer age we still have 90%+ employment in spite of millions of jobs being automated since then.

I have explained this countless times. It's not controversial, it's an accepted phenomena, so please stop stating i have not backed this statement up. Just accept that it is correct because it is.

Er, no. Aside from the lack of links to hard data what you have argued is that Scotland doesn't have a deficit when oil is counted (which is better than the UK as a whole manages) and if you discount oil it would overspend by about 1/6th of GDP, which of course means that the vast majority of Scottish public spending is paid for by taxation on other sectors.

That didn't include debt servicing and possibly a few other things, hence Scotland runs a similar deficit as the UK average.

He's some figures that do include that...

http://www.cebr.com/wp-content/uploa...ility-Mode.pdf

Enjoy, and please calm the **** down.