what happened to free speech

[fckvwls]

Firstly, you're talking about Moroccans, and that's not all the muslims in NL. You're also backtracking and talking of 40%, not 60%. The Dutch government use a definition of 'muslims' and non-western immigrants that's so broad that I’m a black African muslim by virtue of being born in a muslim area of an African country. I think if you’d meet me you’d see that I am not. Their definition of ‘non western immigrant’ is so broad as to make the statistics worse than useless; even the crown princess is a non western immigrant (she’s Argentinian, which is one of the most ‘western’ societies on earth. Lady Tester’s a ‘western immigrant’ because her grandfather (one grandparent born abroad) was born over the border in Belgium.

Plus, 'suspect' does not equal 'convict', and convict does not necessarily equal 'the bloke wot done it'.

Those statistics are tulipe, and all they do is display for all that Dutch universities are not all they're cracked up to be.

A quick google led me to this.

http://www.forum.nl/Portals/Internat...lands-2010.pdf

Nowhere near the stats quoted earlier but still way higher than native Dutch residents.

[chef]

Oy KaiserWilly or from now onwards BigotWilly

You seem to have not answered my question, where do you get the figure 60% of muslims in the netherlands commited a crime?

You quoted some bile about morocans and 40% without giving a source but that is irrelevant as you still have not answered my question. Quote your source bigot or STFU.

[KaiserWilly]

40% of Moroccan immigrants 12-24 have records, and that equates to 60% of the total Muslim population?

Well done quoting a report (with no link) which doesn't even mention the 60% figure.

Hey. You are right. At worst, it's only 50% of the 12-24s . Phew.

[Mich the Tester]

It doesn't. I don't know what proportion of Muslim immigrants to Holland are Moroccan, but even if 40% committed a crime, the proportion of Muslim immigrants committing a crime could possibly be quite small.

So I can safely conclude KaiserWilly is an innumerate cretin.

Not more than half, seeing as there are large numbers from Turkey, Indonesia and more recently Somalia; oh, and some of those 'muslim immigrants' are neither muslims nor immigrants. And just to complicate things, many Indonesians are not counted as 'immigrants' because they or their parents were born in a Dutch colony.

Really the statistics don't help very much, and if you add the average bod's lack of statistical understanding to the equation they probably do more harm than good.

[Doggy Styles]

As NF says, if you walk past coloured people in the street a fair % will be Muslims. there isa big issue with cultural Islam though - you can pretty much ignore the Koran but still identify yourself as a Muslim. That's true with Judaism as well and actually, Catholicism too in many areas (Ireland). A few decades ago I bet most English would have got upset if you said they weren't Christians even though they weren't.

Apparently you can't use that particular c-word any more.

[cailin maith]

Oy KaiserWilly or from now onwards BigotWilly

Lets not, all I can see there are the words - BigWilly

[KaiserWilly]

Firstly, you're talking about Moroccans, and that's not all the muslims in NL. You're also backtracking and talking of 40%, not 60%. The Dutch government use a definition of 'muslims' and non-western immigrants that's so broad that I’m a black African muslim by virtue of being born in a muslim area of an African country. I think if you’d meet me you’d see that I am not. Their definition of ‘non western immigrant’ is so broad as to make the statistics worse than useless; even the crown princess is a non western immigrant (she’s Argentinian, which is one of the most ‘western’ societies on earth. Lady Tester’s a ‘western immigrant’ because her grandfather (one grandparent born abroad) was born over the border in Belgium.

Plus, 'suspect' does not equal 'convict', and convict does not necessarily equal 'the bloke wot done it'.

Those statistics are tulipe, and all they do is display for all that Dutch universities are not all they're cracked up to be.

You are essentially uttering sophisms to deny a reality that you don't like.

Muslims are overrepresented in crime involvement and prison population. This is common to most Western countries. That's the truth. Live with it.

[Mich the Tester]

A quick google led me to this.

http://www.forum.nl/Portals/Internat...lands-2010.pdf

Nowhere near the stats quoted earlier but still way higher than native Dutch residents.

Yes, there are problems among 'immigrants' but they should not be overstated. Do you know what 'native Dutch' means according to the Dutch office of statistics? It means that you're born in NL (or Dutch colonies during the colonial period), both parents were born in NL or Dutch colonies and all grandparents were born in NL or Dutch colonies. It's such a narrow definition (or the definition of foreign is so broad) that it's hardly surprising there are lots of foreigners in NL.

If I were to defin, for the purpose of measuring how green people's lawns are, green blades of grass as only those which contain no yellow or brown bits then most people's lawns would be very far from being green.

[chef]

Hey. You are right. At worst, it's only 50% of the 12-24s . Phew.

Oy Bigot, quote your source for your intolerable bile and learn some maths while your at it.

40% of a race does not equal 60% of a religion, idiot.

[Mich the Tester]

You are essentially uttering sophisms to deny a reality that you don't like.

Muslims are overrepresented in crime involvement and prison population. This is common to most Western countries. That's the truth. Live with it.

Yes, it's the truth, there's a problem, but exaggerating it will just make things much, much worse.