Maybe we should take Eugenics more seriously?

[Scoobos]

Scoobos, been through this before, you can rent a room down here for £50, and there are plenty of jobs.

Catch a coach down to work or start a business up there.

My family are from Kent, via Birmingham, Yorkshire, India & Surrey. The adult children are spread throughout the country and all doing well as top 10% earners.

Once you crack it, there is gold in them thar hills.

but I am also envious of the taxpayer funded house our local baby farm (5 kids and counting) gets for free. Its nicer than ours we pay for.

I understand this side of things, I don't see it as black and white.

From my perspective when people talk "eastern european" most of them are trained and have a trade.

We shouldn't tolerate "Baby factories" as you call them, but equally you can't tar poor old Pete at 45 who finds himself as a master shipbuilder doing nothing, or John who cant even get a job at asda at 50, after 35 years in print.


This is what I get annoyed with.. London effectively STEALS money from the rest of the country and is constantly redeveloping and getting focus to regenerate, while these "sinks" as you call them, get decimated.

Just look at whats happening to farming now.

There are people in the coffee shops living 5 or 6 a house working unskilled, but to suggest the majority can find work down south is just wrong.

If we have a country that isn't training, has completely devalued vocational skills and destroyed our "working class" occupations other than working in Coffee shops or Call Centres - then I don't understand this black and white view that life is somehow equal for everyone.

It's a bit bloody easier for an eastern european to come here and earn Sterling, at a very low (if at all) rate of tax - and double up back home.

I know this, as I've done it in reverse myself.

[bobspud]

but equally you can't tar poor old Pete at 45 who finds himself as a master shipbuilder doing nothing, or John who cant even get a job at asda at 50, after 35 years in print.

The answer is you go and find the work. Sitting in a decimated community waiting for something to happen is the wrong answer even if its your roots...

This is what I get annoyed with.. London effectively STEALS money from the rest of the country and is constantly redeveloping and getting focus to regenerate, while these "sinks" as you call them, get decimated.

Just look at whats happening to farming now.

How does London steal money from the north if most of the wealth is generated down there?
Are you saying that London is supposed to build the north nice places to live even though there are no real jobs there just to keep the northerners out of London?

The answer for the small farmer is to stop selling to sainsburys and get involved in box schemes instead...
Riverford Cottage has done very well on that business plan.

There are people in the coffee shops living 5 or 6 a house working unskilled, but to suggest the majority can find work down south is just wrong.

If the choice for Pete is replacing Vlad grinding coffee in Streatham or sitting in the job centre up north looking at an empty jobs board then the choice should be simple for him....

If we have a country that isn't training, has completely devalued vocational skills and destroyed our "working class" occupations other than working in Coffee shops or Call Centres - then I don't understand this black and white view that life is somehow equal for everyone.

I am sat in my own office in a wing of my converted barn, having came from nothing and a working class family and having no real education (thanks to the left wing idiots of the 80's/90's saying its wrong to teach kids English because its elitist ). I didn't get here by accident I did it by dragging myself up from the bottom of Walthamstows depths. My mates wanted to work in Sainsburys and get laid. I didn't fancy the local talent... I walked around every agency in London giving out my pathetic CV until I got a job in the city ( I was 15) When I had finished two years later I had worked my way into every decent investment bank there was...

Some friends have just moved to the USA. They lost all the money they had getting rid of their house that they bought at the top of the market and then got on a plane ... They managed to get enough cash for a rental house and now at the age of 50 they are going to start from scratch... SHould they have been sat on their arse moaning that the were no jobs in the local area that would pay their mortgage?

[DodgyAgent]

Please don't use the term underclass; its very derogatory and not very fair.

Not that you'll give a tulip!

I have to agree a bit though, in that if people have sod all to do and no incentive to do anything, then drink, drugs and sex seem to be the way to pass the days.

"equal rights" has a lot to answer for, I'm all for everyone having an equal choice on whether to Choose a career over parenting, but it didn't work out that way. Business just cut the full time jobs, created many more part time and now 20 years later there is NO CHOICE. It's both work , or face being very out of pocket.

It saddens me that were in a position where 2 people have to work to hold a middle class and above household , putting kids in care or just not having kids until they are so old that it causes problems; and a massive unbalance of "Mongo's" as you call them (nasty) breeding as they have the capacity to do so.

Something I recently learnt, is the education system has secretly been gearing up over the past 8 years to deal with the scary increase in the % of children with special needs, due to parents both in careers leaving it too long and having kids with defects and problems that wouldn't happen if they had bred in their early 20's or late teens.

It's just kids having kids in some regions now, but with absolutely no chance of employment and no prospect for change (see South Hetton) - then how do you propose that these people climb the "class ladder".


Everyone is already tired of my views on this , so I'll leave it there. Apart from saying, I hate the UK for this ... bloody class system isn't far from extreme racism imo.

It is nothing to do with the class system but all to do with the dead hand of the state killing off entrepreneurial activity. Because lefties like you patronise the public services (who foster underclass culture) there will never be any change. The "class system" is a cliche. the truth is that no matter how affluent people become a class system will always develop along tribal lines.
Blaming the class system is another excuse to perpetuate the misery that are heaped upon the poor by the left wing institutions.

Every society has a class sytem. In this country it is a two tier system (money and/or breeding) which in my view is part of what is great about Britain.

[sasguru]

...This is what I get annoyed with.. London effectively STEALS money from the rest of the country and is constantly redeveloping and getting focus to regenerate, while these "sinks" as you call them, get decimated.
.

Look at the figures. London subsidises the rest of the country massively.
Make no mistake, Britain without London is about as important as Kazakhstan.

[stek]

Look at the figures. London subsidises the rest of the country massively.
Make no mistake, Britain without London is about as important as Kazakhstan.

Well, London subsidises all the families of all the illegals who live there. ie loads....

[Scoobos]

now yes, back in the 80's and early 90's no - North Sea oil anyone? starters for ten?

what did scotland get out of that?

Dodgy, there's no class system in Aus is there?

There the working class are labelled heroes "Aussie Battler" is something a blue landed rich guy is never going to attain.

Aus is productive, and has finance, industry and mining.

It's too easy to be dismissive and say "well move" ..... but then we both sit on such opposite sides of the fence.

For me, its this "Market Forces 100 Capitalism movement" that's caused the issues we have today.

It's better to have people employed in inefficient roles, than to strive for efficiency which results in 20%+ Unemployment . If you take away your enemy of the welfare state, then you'll still pay for it in crime , policing, healthcare, customers not having money to buy etc etc. Its called Externalising costs , I expect the Tories / belivers in pure capitalism to understand that.

It's costing us so much in "Externalised costs" but I dont think people like you DA, will ever even attempt to look on it with a macro view, its always going to be compared to the extremes and your own upbringing and opportunities.

People born into domestic violence, systematic unemployment and who's last member of the family who had a job was 3 generations ago don't have the mobility you seem to put on them - its not simple like logistics.

Britain's class system and desire to one up each other is our downfall. <end whiney spam>

[Scoobos]

Look at the figures.
Make no mistake, Britain with or without London is about as important as Kazakhstan.

[Old Greg]

now yes, back in the 80's and early 90's no - North Sea oil anyone? starters for ten?

what did scotland get out of that?

Dodgy, there's no class system in Aus is there?

There the working class are labelled heroes "Aussie Battler" is something a blue landed rich guy is never going to attain.

Aus is productive, and has finance, industry and mining.

It's too easy to be dismissive and say "well move" ..... but then we both sit on such opposite sides of the fence.

For me, its this "Market Forces 100 Capitalism movement" that's caused the issues we have today.

It's better to have people employed in inefficient roles, than to strive for efficiency which results in 20%+ Unemployment . If you take away your enemy of the welfare state, then you'll still pay for it in crime , policing, healthcare, customers not having money to buy etc etc. Its called Externalising costs , I expect the Tories / belivers in pure capitalism to understand that.

It's costing us so much in "Externalised costs" but I dont think people like you DA, will ever even attempt to look on it with a macro view, its always going to be compared to the extremes and your own upbringing and opportunities.

People born into domestic violence, systematic unemployment and who's last member of the family who had a job was 3 generations ago don't have the mobility you seem to put on them - its not simple like logistics.

Britain's class system and desire to one up each other is our downfall. <end whiney spam>

Shame on you. Dodgy clarified this a few weeks ago. Remove all benefits and the unemployed will be reduced to the situation of African refugees and then they will be motivated to find employment.

[Scoobos]

Last multipost from me - I thought after saying that Aus doesnt have a class system I should have added something - it does have a strong feeling within its populace of "bad things happen because Good people stand by and watch" - and this is aimed at the U.K.

Social conscience is big, and there is a "CHAV" slur, "BOGAN" that is aimed at cheats and dodgers, but no one would ever get away with leaching quite so much as they do here...

T
If the choice for Pete is replacing Vlad grinding coffee in Streatham or sitting in the job centre up north looking at an empty jobs board then the choice should be simple for him....

I hear you bob, and we agree on most things, but this for me is tosh.

It's soul destroying to go back to that after working your way and paying your taxes through thick and thin and have a gvt destroy your industry on a whim.

Whether you like it or not, as you get older you get less flexible and more proud and set in your ways. It's asking a lot - and I doubt many people on this forum, if they pulled your line of business would think, right then, off the Maccy D's.

Add to that the fact that most of these coffee shop workers are paid cash, or off payroll - or made to work illegal hours ; explains why the Brit can't even get these jobs even if they do apply.

Most coffee shop, cleaners and shops now exclusively hire foreign staff as they are "subservient" in their opinions.

I just preach like this, not because I'm a northerner , but because I've lived and worked worldwide and understand the consequences of not having a welfare system.

I've seen FAR FAR FAR too many kids with amputated limbs begging in undeveloped countries along with Blind people in the streets of the US and Canada begging as there is ZERO state support for them.

The people who breed for money and to leech the state are scum, but taking the welfare state away will make you pay even more.. Much more.

I get passionate like this, because the government has a moral responsibility to serve it's populace, not simply the people in the South East..

This government has certainly done this - we need Regeneration, not people saying leave everywhere outside of London for dead - the loss of culture, society and our national identity is not worth GDP.

[Bunk]

I just preach like this, not because I'm a northerner , but because I've lived and worked worldwide and understand the consequences of not having a welfare system.

I don't think anyone's suggesting we should have no welfare system, just that it shouldn't reward laziness and being unemployed shouldn't be a lifestyle choice.