George Osborne demands massive cuts to windfarm subsidies

[Doggy Styles]

My point is that there is plenty of wind in this country - certainly a better bet for power production than solar panels in Germans

Those who dare win.

Feck me.

[Scoobos]

Diver won't like this ..

Where are you, enjoying the jubilee?

[AtW]

I am going to office now to have a productive day working on SKA.

HTH

[TimberWolf]

My point is that there is plenty of wind in this country - certainly a better bet for power production than solar panels in Germans

Those who dare win.

Are you mad. We've a free resource for the taking, why not ignore it and burn finite foreign fossil fuels instead?

Anyway, even with wind, nuclear and solar we'll still be heavily dependent on importing foreign fossils, so fossil burners needn't be worried.

[minestrone]

The Observer magazine has some ethical awards bit in it today and first up is some wind farm geezer so a pro wind farm bashing tories tale on the front page is obviously a no brainer, notice how they place "the Observer understands" as they know the tale will be pushed around the internet. The story is a promo push based on no fact, every other paper will be bumping up Queenie and her party on the front page which the Observer will not do.

Anyway Whitlee wind farm which is europe's biggest is not too far from me and every time I go past it seems to have doubled in size. It is like a melanoma and now blights the area. Always half the tubrines are stationary.

It probably only gives enough power to do a small section of Glasgow where Hunterston with its 1960 designed reactor can easily cover the entire Clyde valley.

I am happy this pathetic folly pushed by left wing townies is being put to an end.

[hyperD]

Image Of The Day: Germany Sets Solar Power Record · OPB News

"German solar power plants set a world record in late May, producing 22 gigawatts of electricity per hour, meeting nearly 50 percent of the nation’s midday needs, "

Who would have thought that Germany would have such a success with solar power, they are not exactly Greece of Spain sunny days wise?

If that works in Germany then surely wind farms could work in UK.

NO NO NO NO!

The Deutsche solar panels may be producing a "recording breaking" amount of energy on that day, but for fecks sake, stop looking at this on an individual basis: the National Grid is a Just In Time amorphous entity that is supposed to provide our energy needs 24/7.

Once again, think kettle.

Spiking the grid with a meagre über-subsidised 10% efficient energy for the sake of it will not provide long term energy sustenance.

Once again, for the hard of engineering: it does not fit in with the base/peak powered fossil fuelled energy model that we have.

Once again: think kettle.

No. Power. Stations. Will. Be. Shutdown. Whatsover. And. Stop. Burning. Fossil. Fuels. During. This. Time.

And that's the ethos that's driving this economic insanity in a homage to the religion that is Global Warming/Change/Variability Bollocks? Isn't it?

Global Warming Bollocks. Save The Earth. Use Taxpayers Money To Finance The Rich And Landowners That Can Apply For Windmills? To finance lobbyists that add no wealth to our nation whatsover?

Good grief, switch off the TV, stop reading opinionpapers and get on with your lives...

Your energy bills will rise until you all wake up.

[d000hg]

Osborne, whose reputation has taken a dive following his widely criticised budge

What objective reporting. Every budget is widely criticised by every MP not in government.

Just in case you have not realised yet Osborne is a total and utter

So you're a fan of throwing money at something which those supporting would fail without massive subsidies?

[AtW]

Anyway, even with wind, nuclear and solar we'll still be heavily dependent on importing foreign fossils, so fossil burners needn't be worried.

If demand for oil drops by 25-30% then it would cause MUCH bigger price drop on it - benefit to economy would be great if usage was reduced by that amount.

The downside is that sheiks might no longer be able to afford buying EPL football clubs and players would have to do on modest salaries of under £100k per week.

[TimberWolf]

NO NO NO NO!

The Deutsche solar panels may be producing a "recording breaking" amount of energy on that day, but for fecks sake, stop looking at this on an individual basis: the National Grid is a Just In Time amorphous entity that is supposed to provide our energy needs 24/7.

Once again, think kettle.

Spiking the grid with a meagre über-subsidised 10% efficient energy for the sake of it will not provide long term energy sustenance.

Once again, for the hard of engineering: it does not fit in with the base/peak powered fossil fuelled energy model that we have.

Once again: think kettle.

No. Power. Stations. Will. Be. Shutdown. Whatsover. And. Stop. Burning. Fossil. Fuels. During. This. Time.

And that's the ethos that's driving this economic insanity in a homage to the religion that is Global Warming/Change/Variability Bollocks? Isn't it?

Global Warming Bollocks. Save The Earth. Use Taxpayers Money To Finance The Rich And Landowners That Can Apply For Windmills? To finance lobbyists that add no wealth to our nation whatsover?

Good grief, switch off the TV, stop reading opinionpapers and get on with your lives...

Your energy bills will rise until you all wake up.

The UK is rapidly running out of fossil fuels, do you want to be more reliant on Johhny Foreigner than necessary for something as crucial as energy? To ignore our free* great windy gift would be nuts IMO. *Free in the sense that wind turbines produce many more times energy over their lifetimes than is used to construct them. Ditto for the Severn Barrage.

You point out repeatedly that we would need capacity to cover the times when the wind doesn't blow, which isn't true, but omit to mention that fossil power plants are also idle when peak capacity isn't met by electrical demand. Also that days when output from all wind farms is zero is quite rare and that electrical links are being formed with the rest of Europe for just such times. Or that with the move to electrification, more can be done with energy storage and smart metering. It's only a different, not Armageddon.

I don't think there was any intention to provide all our energy needs with renewables, just 20% or so.

There may be an argument for much bigger nuclear investment, but there is no good argument for fossil fuel reliance for us as a burnt out nation IMO. Not that we can escape needing to import a large fraction of our energy, but we can at least try to buffer ourselves a little.

[hyperD]

The UK is rapidly running out of fossil fuels, do you want to be more reliant on Johhny Foreigner than necessary for something as crucial as energy? To ignore our free* great windy gift would be nuts IMO. *Free in the sense that wind turbines produce many more times energy over their lifetimes than is used to construct them. Ditto for the Severn Barrage.

You point out repeatedly that we would need capacity to cover the times when the wind doesn't blow, which isn't true, but omit to mention that fossil power plants are also idle when peak capacity isn't met by electrical demand. Also that days when output from all wind farms is zero is quite rare and that electrical links are being formed with the rest of Europe for just such times. Or that with the move to electrification, more can be done with energy storage and smart metering. It's only a different, not Armageddon.

I don't think there was any intention to provide all our energy needs with renewables, just 20% or so.

There may be an argument for much bigger nuclear investment, but there is no good argument for fossil fuel reliance for us as a burnt out nation IMO. Not that we can escape needing to import a large fraction of our energy, but we can at least try to buffer ourselves a little.

Sorry TW, and I feel awful to say it, but wrong. All of it. It's like an MSM duplicated spiel. Sorry mate.

The UK is not running out of fossil fuels. Peak oil is a simply a hypothesis that's been pushed into the forefront of MSM for the last 40 years when they first announced it. And the goalposts are constantly being moved due to economics and recent vast oil reservoir discoveries and oil recovery technologies.

The problem you guys have, without the engineering acumen and knowledge, is that you simply believe by plugging in overtly subsidised banks of "free energy" windmills that you state

"Free in the sense that wind turbines produce many more times energy over their lifetimes than is used to construct them"

which may or may not be true, what you fail to understand, is that they are useless when ingratiated with the way our energy supply is managed.

They save nothing.

They don't drop the turndown ratio on fossil fuelled power stations. And if power stations did follow the variance of windfarms energy output they would swing like a bitch and use more fossil fuel than was their boilerplate efficiency on a standard turndown.

The fact that their penetration rate into our National Grid is less than 20% is the whole reason we don't experience brownouts, or worse, blackouts.

Nuclear can follow demand but as you state, for some reason, the investment from our taxes seems lacking.

Ultimately fusion will provide all the "free energy" we require, but may be in our children's generation. Paradoxically, the same pattern of base and peak demand will still exist. Perhaps we'll move on from steam generated power to spin electrical generators onto something else...

You point out repeatedly that we would need capacity to cover the times when the wind doesn't blow, which isn't true, but omit to mention that fossil power plants are also idle when peak capacity isn't met by electrical demand.

No.

The base load power that these power plants supply are working 24/7 constantly, the extra "peaking" power that is required when we wake up an all make a coffee, boil a kettle to make a tea when the ITV ads come on, are addressed by the standby peaking power fossil fuelled plants that are running to plug into the Grid as required. Once again, think kettle.

They have heated up their boilers for steam to power their generators and are ready a good few hours before they are needed.

I need another absinthe...keep it coming comrades, no ad homs, lets keep the chat going!