The only good kraut is a dead kraut.

[Scoobos]

Sir Patrick Moore - racist or harmless old buffoon entitled to his opinion after what he faced in the war?

I didn't live through the war so I don't hold the same view at all. HOWEVER, yes I think given his wife died at the enemies hands I'd expect him to hold this view.

He's not as bad as my grandad, who faught in Africa and once, in an indian restuarant in bradford, when asked for his order - pointed at a black fella and said one of those.......


I've learnt to tolerate and accept this , as I cannot comprehend the hells these guys have seen and if they did see enemy soilders as "the same" they'd all have ptsd in guilt etc.

[BlasterBates]

I....

He's not as bad as my grandad, who faught in Africa and once, in an indian restuarant in bradford, when asked for his order - pointed at a black fella and said one of those.......


I've learnt to tolerate and accept this , as I cannot comprehend the hells these guys have seen and if they did see enemy soilders as "the same" they'd all have ptsd in guilt etc.

Weren't the Indians fighting for the British!!

[BlasterBates]

I....

He's not as bad as my grandad, who faught in Africa and once, in an indian restuarant in bradford, when asked for his order - pointed at a black fella and said one of those.......


I've learnt to tolerate and accept this , as I cannot comprehend the hells these guys have seen and if they did see enemy soilders as "the same" they'd all have ptsd in guilt etc.

Weren't the Indians fighting for the British!!

.....ah you mean an African....I see

[darmstadt]

My grandfather (who was also a Chelsea Pensioner) was in Germany before the war and then fought against them. He was among the first soldiers who marched into Frankfurt which was flattened and when people came out of the cellars and realised they were British and not Russian they were overjoyed. He then ended up rounding up the remaining Nazis in norther Germany who he said had no remorse but the general citizens were very sorry, they didn't want war. He then went back later on and helped to rebuild the economy by starting their equivalent of the TUC and unions. He liked Germany and the ordinary Germans a lot as in his words it was the actions of a few which affected the majority, a bit like the conservative government...

[Support Monkey]

My grandfather (who was also a Chelsea Pensioner) was in Germany before the war and then fought against them. He was among the first soldiers who marched into Frankfurt which was flattened and when people came out of the cellars and realised they were British and not Russian they were overjoyed. He then ended up rounding up the remaining Nazis in norther Germany who he said had no remorse but the general citizens were very sorry, they didn't want war. He then went back later on and helped to rebuild the economy by starting their equivalent of the TUC and unions. He liked Germany and the ordinary Germans a lot as in his words it was the actions of a few which affected the majority, a bit like the conservative government...

Exactly!!!

[Sysman]

Many Germans were also opposed to war but rather than simply being ignored by the government they faced death of them, their families and any associates due to the powers placed in local authorities if they spoke out against the state and did not follow the party line.

I had a German girlfriend whose father was sent to Dachau because he was a member of the Communist Party. Let's not forget that quite a few British intellectuals of the time were too.

My personal opinion is those in glass houses should not throw stones. WW2 was not the last atrocity to occur, Britain is not by any means perfect in it's track record over the years in terms of war.

Didn't Britain invent the idea of concentration camps? Lest we forget: The Concentration Camps 1899 - 1902

[Sysman]

Ok, so this guy who went away to fight the Germans at 17, lost his fiancee to the Germans, got wounded by the same Germans and got so traumatised that he will never talk about what happened....surprise, surprise hates the Germans.

And I came across this in Holland from that generation too. I lost count of the number of drinks bought for me by those who had been imprisoned by the Germans and who wanted to thank the British for freeing them, their brother, cousin, whatever. When I pointed out that I wasn't alive during the war, they would counter with "Well your father was and he fought against the Germans". That experience made me realise how lucky we British were that we hadn't been occupied. We can probably not fully understand the concept because we haven't experienced it. And yes, the Germans recruited young males from the countries they occupied.

I'm 50 this year. When I was growing up, most adults hated the Germans because most people or their parents had been bombed or fought them and everyone had a war story to tell. My father who spent the war as a kid dodging V1s and V2s on Plumstead Common felt the same way about the Germans as Patrick Moore. There's something about the immediacy of having experienced it or been told about it directly by people that were there that unsurprisingly carries more weight.

My father never said a thing about the war (which was a bit disappointing for me when I was a nipper and didn't have his stories to share with other lads). It wasn't until I was in my forties that he told me that at the age of 19 he'd witnessed his commanding officer take a direct hit from a shell. I could finally understand his silence over those years. Everyone has their own way of dealing with it.

[Sysman]

Weren't the Indians fighting for the British!!

Aye. My father's regiment served alongside an Indian one.

It turned him into a lifelong racist.

[Scoobos]

On that note, if you visit the (European) graveyards in Normandy its eye opening to see how people set their differences apart with a common aim.

In some stretches there are Moslem graves next to Jewish ones, next to hindu ones.

[EternalOptimist]

Wasnt it Moore who was studying the Horse head nebulae, and discovered the Square head one just behind it

near the Poland star