E-Petition: Migrate all government IT to Linux based systems

[Mr.Whippy]

My last project was moving a lot of applications from Windows servers onto zLinux due to the extremely high costs of Windows software and hardware including both inhouse and remote support. This was for possibly the largest German government department going and it works perfectly well and is a darn sight cheaper. Although that is server based but as per my last posting, we have over 5000 Linux desktop users and costs have been dramatically reduced...

Yes I expect there are savings to be made. But you are talking about "a lot" of applications for a single government department. The petition is calling for the entire UK government IT to move to Linux. A different ball park IMO.

[petergriffin]

Yes I expect there are savings to be made. But you are talking about "a lot" of applications for a single government department. The petition is calling for the entire UK government IT to move to Linux. A different ball park IMO.

I could be wrong but I have been told that Brazil has followed that route. Ten years ago Brazil was one of the poorest countries in the world and now they have a GDP growth that Britain can only dream about, and this also due to the significant savings on IT software licencing. The IT sector in Brazil is booming and I am dying to get a permanent working visa in that country. If and when I get one I will not care a bit of what the goverment in this country will do.

http://www.networkworld.com/communit...en-open-source

[Mr.Whippy]

I could be wrong but I have been told that Brazil has followed that route. Ten years ago Brazil was on the poorest countries in the world and now they have a GDP growth that Britain can only dream about it, and this also due to the significant savings on IT software licencing. The IT secor is Brazil is booming and I am dying to get a permanent working visa for that country. If and when I get one I will not care a bit of what the goverment in this country will do.
Brazil is open to open source

So what kind of IT systems/applications have the Brazilian government replaced with Linux then? And how does the quantity of said systems/applications stack up against the type and quantity the UK government would be replacing? Are you comparing like for like?

Even if you are, I still think that when you line up the usual suspects to take a project of this magnitude the cost would be insane... and eventually end up being delivered late and likely cost way more than originally thought.

[petergriffin]

So what kind of IT systems/applications have the Brazilian government replaced with Linux then? And how does the quantity of said systems/applications stack up against the type and quantity the UK government would be replacing? Are you comparing like for like?

No, you can never compare like for like because Brazil started this migration more that 7 years ago and and that time most applications used to run on fat clients. Now almost everything is going to move onto some sort of cloud and must be accessible form a variety of hardware/software platforms, from the old fashioned Wintel desktop to a tablet/mobile phone. Linux and Open Source make a better candidate for a cloud migration because of definitely better uptime and reliability, lower maintenance costs and so on.

[bobspud]

Linux is only free if your time is worthless.

No. You are wrong.

If I configure a three tier application using Windows or Solaris, next to my hardware kit I need to add a set of costs for licences. That would currently include...

OS
Web Tier (IIS or Oracles Web frontend)
Application Tier (weblogic / sharepoint)
Database (sql server 2008 or Oracle )
Backup Software (netapp, comm vault)
Monitoring Agents...

On a hardware quote based on Windows, Solaris, AIX, ESX I can quite easily match the initial hardware cost in one off licences just to install software that I have already bought the media for...

However I could pick Ubuntu, BSD, Fedora or practically any linux distribution and install components for all of the above without a single penny passing the hands of a vendor for a licence.

Don't confuse yearly support costs with one off licences...

I am not going to sign this petition for a very good reason. It's fine to setup a startup company and say from day one, we only use Ubuntu and Libre Office.
But for an enterprise with millions of documents ranging from Word 6 to 2010, not to mention excel and vb scritps, its a nightmare. You can't big bang something like this, So it would end up taking years. And the security requirements that clowns like the Cabinet Office like to spout like removing unused software and locking stuff down would make for package dependancy hell.

I'd rather free software lived in the small business than died in government.

[d000hg]

this country would save a lot of money, which could be reinvested into implementing local IT solutions, preventing the scandalous offshoring of IT hobs and handling of personal data to disreputable agencies abroad.

That's a bogus argument. If they saved money (a big if) they could save even more by continuing to off-shore.

Also, I like Windows. Client-side anyway.

[Zoiderman]

Crazed Idea

[petergriffin]

I am not going to sign this petition for a very good reason. It's fine to setup a startup company and say from day one, we only use Ubuntu and Libre Office.
But for an enterprise with millions of documents ranging from Word 6 to 2010, not to mention excel and vb scritps, its a nightmare. You can't big bang something like this, So it would end up taking years. And the security requirements that clowns like the Cabinet Office like to spout like removing unused software and locking stuff down would make for package dependancy hell.

I'd rather free software lived in the small business than died in government.

I get your point in principle but in reality all these millions of locked down Word/Excel/vba documents are already "big banged", as you say, every time there's an Office upgrade or at least every two major software upgrades. So the argument, that I have heard for ages, that it would cost a fortune to migrate all these proprietary docs to correspondent open source apps doesn't stand because it will also cost a fortune to migrate these docs to the newer versions and it will cost even more in 5 years when Microsoft will remove support.

[NickFitz]

Linux is only free if your time is worthless.

Completely missed the point then?

For a start, advocates of "free software" are talking about "free as in speech, not as in beer": the point is that the software is not under the control of some organisation that can prevent you doing whatever you want with it, as is the case with software like Windows or OS X.

Red Hat just passed $1 billion in revenue. Their business is distributing Linux. So quite clearly software can be free yet still have monetary value, because it's a different usage of "free" to the economic meaning.

The expression "Price of everything, value of nothing" springs to mind...

[Mr.Whippy]

Linux and Open Source make a better candidate for a cloud migration because of definitely better uptime and reliability, lower maintenance costs and so on.

I know this, I'm RHCE certified and studying for the other architecture & security certifications that RH offer so I'm fully aware of the benefits that Linux/open source can provide.

I just think it's a far too tall an order for the UK government to even begin to replace everything it has with Linux. But, comparing the entire IT infrastructure of the UK now with Brazil 7-10 years ago isn't really good comparison at all.