how to save the UK economy

[AtW]

Correct - all this tulip about hire and fire is dogma.

I don't know if it's a dogma but I know that it is a total BS that being able to fire people easier would supposedly help UK on path to recovery. If that's the best the Govt can do (which they probably can't anyway due to courts, unions etc) then might as well vote Labour next time.

[TimberWolf]

You voters have a tough decision to make next time around. Frying pan or frying pan?

[Mich the Tester]

You voters have a tough decision to make next time around. Frying pan or frying pan?

You mean there isn't a choice labelled 'down the pan'?

[BrilloPad]

You mean there isn't a choice labelled 'down the pan'?

There is - ir is spelt l-i-b-e-r-a-l. And I voted for them last time

In my defence I did vote for Dr Tool - a great name for an MP though a better name for a bond villain.

[DodgyAgent]

I don't get this - you can fire people here if you have no work for them - it's called making them redundant (or you can just use contractors). Why do the limp-minded think that being able to fire people because you don't like them any more or you have fallen out with them because they realised you are an ego maniac half wit will turn us into an economic powerhouse?

That thing about fire at will in the US is, like most things to do with the US, largely illusory.

What an extraordinarIly ignorant statement. As if firing people is all about the ego of a boss. How little you understand business. Do you really think that employment is all about this attritional relationship between employer and employee?
Businesses subjected to extreme competition perform better when under threat of customers going elsewhere. The same applies to an extent with employees. No employee should be made to feel totally secure. The threat of being replaced or losing their job makes them perform better. Olympic athletes cannot dwell on past performances. Chris hoy has to train and perform to the best of his abilities every minute of every day to remain in the Olympic team. Likewise if an individual is not up to the job then the employer should have an easier task than we now have to fire someone.
This applies especially to public sector workers none of who can be sacked yet they deliver the most appalling levels of service.
The only dogma here is your left wing bollocks
Nowadays employers have to think really hard before employing someone, because they know that if business falls they won't be able to get rid of them. Likewise they are also afraid that if they employ a dud they will not be able to remove them.
No wonder unemployment remains so high

[sasguru]

Do you really think that employment is all about this attritional relationship between employer and employee?
No employee should be made to feel totally secure. The threat of being replaced or losing their job makes them perform better.

You've contradicted yourself there.
And as a manager I think you're talking complete bollox.

[DodgyAgent]

You've contradicted yourself there.
And as a manager I think you're talking complete bollox.

Ok I am being extreme in making my point. Yes I accept that a certain level of job security is good for employees. But I do believe that workers should be kept on their toes and never be allowed to feel that their job is an entitlement.
I also see that our lefty apologist seems to think that relationships between boss and worker are an attritional state of conflict between employee (victim exploited) and employer (sadistic bully). It is no wonder that private sector jobs are not being created if that is the lefts attitude to the workplace.

[BlasterBates]

Have to say fully agree with hire and fire. Important thing is that being fired isn't seen as a blight.

What you want is a culture where you can knock on a door or pick up a telephone find a manager who desperately needs someone, sweet talk him and start on Monday because he doesn't have to talk to HR or go through lengthy job interviews.

Wasn't it more like that in the 1940's and 50's?

Personally don't mind being fired if I know I can "man" the phone and get a job pretty easily. The fact that we could all change jobs easily, i.e. tell the boss to f*** off on Friday and have a job on Tuesday somewhere else appeals to me..

Job security works both ways, how many souless permies out there who can't stand their jobs but are stuck with a 3 month notice period.

Yeah ...hire and fire, bring it on ...

[Doggy Styles]

But I do believe that workers should be kept on their toes and never be allowed to feel that their job is an entitlement.

WDAS

I've seen quite a bit of that among permies. And back to the point of this thread, you can't shift them.

[BrilloPad]

What you want is a culture where you can knock on a door or pick up a telephone find a manager who desperately needs someone, sweet talk him and start on Monday because he doesn't have to talk to HR or go through lengthy job interviews.

Well it was alot like that in the 80s and 90s in IT. But now the HR droids are involved - and at least in IB you are expected to know obscure parts of the coding manual.

Maybe we can get rid of all the lawyers while we are getting rid of HR?