how to save the UK economy

[The Spartan]

Ok I am being extreme in making my point. Yes I accept that a certain level of job security is good for employees. But I do believe that workers should be kept on their toes and never be allowed to feel that their job is an entitlement.

If you said that to the civil service we'd have a strike over that lol, I wholeheartedly agree I knew far too many people who took the fact they had a job for granted.

A similar thing happened at a well known private company I worked at but then they decided to make the dead wood rendundant and the thing was no one saw it coming but it was justified.

[tractor]

....

Have to say fully agree with hire and fire. Important thing is that being fired isn't seen as a blight.

What you want is a culture where you can knock on a door or pick up a telephone find a manager who desperately needs someone, sweet talk him and start on Monday because he doesn't have to talk to HR or go through lengthy job interviews.

Wasn't it more like that in the 1940's and 50's?

Personally don't mind being fired if I know I can "man" the phone and get a job pretty easily. The fact that we could all change jobs easily, i.e. tell the boss to f*** off on Friday and have a job on Tuesday somewhere else appeals to me..

Job security works both ways, how many souless permies out there who can't stand their jobs but are stuck with a 3 month notice period.

Yeah ...hire and fire, bring it on ...

Agree entirely!!

Unfortunately when everyone has to run the gauntlet of Human Remains and numpty agents who use "Complaint" and "Compliant" interchangeably in their adverts because they are too stupid sets the barrier far too high.

That and those artificial barriers like can't get a job because you fail a credit check - durrrh - what part of I'm skint because I don't have a job is too difficult for these idiots to understand?

[MrMark]

Have to say fully agree with hire and fire. Important thing is that being fired isn't seen as a blight.

What you want is a culture where you can knock on a door or pick up a telephone find a manager who desperately needs someone, sweet talk him and start on Monday because he doesn't have to talk to HR or go through lengthy job interviews.

Wasn't it more like that in the 1940's and 50's?

Personally don't mind being fired if I know I can "man" the phone and get a job pretty easily. The fact that we could all change jobs easily, i.e. tell the boss to f*** off on Friday and have a job on Tuesday somewhere else appeals to me..

Job security works both ways, how many souless permies out there who can't stand their jobs but are stuck with a 3 month notice period.

Yeah ...hire and fire, bring it on ...

yep - and make all recruitment agencies and HR departments illegal. You only get a job by showing the manager that you have the skills and can do a good job. None of this "only if you've squatted in the same chair for 10 years, and have 5 years experience of a software update that's only been out 1 year" rubbish...

Ah... I can dream...

[Platypus]

but then they decided to make the dead wood rendundant

Exactly, I don't see what easy hire-and-fire (well, the firing part) will do that redundancy doesn't give already.

[Goatfell]

Exactly, I don't see what easy hire-and-fire (well, the firing part) will do that redundancy doesn't give already.

If your business is suffering in a downturn, lack orders perhaps, but you can see it is a temporary blip, you could reduce the workforce (fire) hence lowering your overheads allowing your business to survive until the recovery.

At the moment you have to make the job redundant, not the person. This costs the business financially and in resources. If the awaited upturn occurs within six months (IIRC) you cannot just fill that position (hire) with someone to carry out that role.

It's all about business having the flexibility to ride out the ups and downs.

[doodab]

If your business is suffering in a downturn, lack orders perhaps, but you can see it is a temporary blip, you could reduce the workforce (fire) hence lowering your overheads allowing your business to survive until the recovery.

At the moment you have to make the job redundant, not the person. This costs the business financially and in resources. If the awaited upturn occurs within six months (IIRC) you cannot just fill that position (hire) with someone to carry out that role.

It's all about business having the flexibility to ride out the ups and downs.

The flip side is that if you don't fire people you don't lose their skills so you're better placed to deal with the upturn.

[Goatfell]

The flip side is that if you don't fire people you don't lose their skills so you're better placed to deal with the upturn.

That's very true, but it should be up to the business to decide.

Retain a skilled workforce and get a headstart or go bust just before the upturn?

Slim down and survive or go bust because you're lagging behind your competitors?

Not something you can legislate for as every situation is different.

[petergriffin]

There's no need to hire and fire nowadays. The majority of new contracts offered today have a very long probationary period (6-12 months). All that employers need to do is say:"Thank you, that's the door!" a couple of days before the end of the period. Period!

[eek]

There's no need to hire and fire nowadays. The majority of new contracts offered today have a very long probationary period (6-12 months). All that employers need to do is say:"Thank you, that's the door!" a couple of days before the end of the period. Period!

My current clientco got rid of probation periods because the staff used to walk out for a contract at zero notice.

[Mich the Tester]

Agree entirely!!

Unfortunately when everyone has to run the gauntlet of Human Remains and numpty agents who use "Complaint" and "Compliant" interchangeably in their adverts because they are too stupid sets the barrier far too high.

That and those artificial barriers like can't get a job because you fail a credit check - durrrh - what part of I'm skint because I don't have a job is too difficult for these idiots to understand?

yep - and make all recruitment agencies and HR departments illegal. You only get a job by showing the manager that you have the skills and can do a good job. None of this "only if you've squatted in the same chair for 10 years, and have 5 years experience of a software update that's only been out 1 year" rubbish...

Ah... I can dream...

But but but...what would we do with all the HRM 'graduates'?

I agree with both of you by the way