No doubt it's all our fault

[chock]

It's certainly not proof that muslims are bad people who want to kill us all in our sleep, which seems to be the party line in these parts.

Just to be clear BTW, I do agree with you on this one!

[The Lone Gunman]

Nicely put Snaw.
First off I studied Islam because I wanted to understand my friends. I could not understand how or why these guys were slowly but surely turning from modern young men into (for want of a better image) Osama bin Laden. They had never drank but did go to parties, dressed well and were very sociable. As they got older we saw less and less of them but put it down to work commitments. I occasionaly saw one or two and the main reason I picked up was that religion was a major factor so I decided to find out why.

I know what I write is somewhat inflamatory, but at some point in the future I believe it will be the case.

I do not think that every Muslim is plotting to overthrow us, as you say most are concerned with day to day practicallities.

When Muslims have enough power (physical or political) they are required by their religion to use that power to advance Islam. Allah will be very annoyed with them if they dont join in. Apostates as they will become are to be treated worse than infidels.

I see a problem in that the nutters of the Muslim community are openly pushing for this uprising but none of the mainstream Imams are opposing them. You wouldnt would you, I mean, if the nutters are right and this is Jihad then you are eternally damned and due a good stoning to boot.

I see modern attitudes in the West as being an open invite and we will not be looking when the uprising comes. It may be very quiet. If we ever have a Muslim majority then we will get Sharia law and that does not look pretty from an atheist angle I can tell you.

Please do the research, please prove me wrong cause I am tulip scared.

I hate this because I am a tolerant bloke, I just want to live in peace but I cant see how that can include Islam.

[chock]

Please do the research, please prove me wrong cause I am tulip scared.

I hate this because I am a tolerant bloke, I just want to live in peace but I cant see how that can include Islam.

I was totally ignorant to this type of stuff until I started researching Sharia law for potential property investments in Dubai.

I started reading bits and pieces and then .........eh???!!

I myself am interested in living in a peaceful world and if we are ever going to resolve anything we need to at least acknowledge that there is a problem. Some old fart sitting in whitehall who uses community leaders who are way out of touch with their communities for reference will not bring the problems to the table as such.

[hyperD]

It's certainly not proof that muslims are bad people who want to kill us all in our sleep, which seems to be the party line in these parts.

I don't think it is.

I've lived in the Hillingdon area for over 10 years and there were plenty of good muslim neighbours all vying for the same standard of life as everyone else and moaning about the same issues that effected us all.

The problem is, just as the chav underclass that have bloomed in bliar's government of rights without responsibilities, there is an underclass that has boomed on extremist religious fervour and as much as we, the supposed indigenous population wouldn't think twice at slagging a Burburry wearing ape, we become silent when pointing at a muslim expressing outrageous views, for fear of being branded a racist.

We are seeing the blurring of these two modern events in our society that will continue to be the angst of the reasonable majority unless we address these immediately.

Too many people label one as a social problem, the other as a religious/immigration issue when in fact, they are the same social problem of unacceptability for the majority of those that want to live our lives in peace in the UK.

[Fungus]

I was listening to some Imams recently on R4. They said that the Koran is a complex document and must be interpreted within the context of the period when it was written. At the time that it was written, life was harsher, and more brutal, and for that reason it must not be taken literally. The Old and New Testaments are not dissimilar in that both can be used to justify appalling behaviour. Some of the extreme fundamentalists in America are wacko IMO.

Traditionally an Iman helps disciples of Islam to understand the true meaning of the Koran (which should be in the original Arabic). According to these people it is a peaceful book, and for example it condemns suicide.

Unfortunately there are 'rogue' Imams who mis-interpret the meaning (or at least interpret in a non-mainstream fashion).

The problems with Islam are IMO largely cultural. People from backward isolated rural communities have (to our eyes) awful ideas and practices, and they bring them over here. The only way forward is to encourage tolerance (but not accepting bad practices) in the hope that the young integrate more. I suspect that victimising someone because they are Muslim simply drives them into ghettos, and encourages paranoia and extremism. Unfortunately high unemployment probably has the same effect.

[The Lone Gunman]

Fungus: Those Imams are risking hell fire according to the Koran.

The Koran is the word of God and is not open to interpretation only to understanding.

The fact that it was written in its time is one of its problems. It leaves no room for manouvre should the world change. If only God had had the foresight to appoint a line of prophets not just one so that he could keep steering us after Mohamed died.

[Fungus]

The problem is, just as the chav underclass that have bloomed in bliar's government of rights without responsibilities, there is an underclass that has boomed on extremist religious fervour and as much as we, the supposed indigenous population wouldn't think twice at slagging a Burburry wearing ape, we become silent when pointing at a muslim expressing outrageous views, for fear of being branded a racist.

I think we have to accept Muslims, but condemn practices that we find abhorrent e.g. the subjugation of women in some Muslim homes. I don't see why I should accept that women should be completely shrouded in public, and ordered around by the males. People should be free to practice a religion, but some things should be condemned.

Maybe what follows is the bleedin' obvious. Sorry if that is the case. On a broader issue, unfortunately what happened was that the extremists in the Muslim world who were opposed to the Western supported dictatorships in the Middle East set up home in ultra-tolerant Londonistan where they were given refuge. They preached their brand of hatred, directed terrorism abroad, and recruited British Muslims, due in part to our support of brutal regimes. We turned a blind eye to their activities, until they started bringing the bloodshed to our own doorstep. Now we have a significant minority of nutters. And they give the majority of decent Muslims a bad name, and infect some of them with bile. I suppose it's not surprising. The suicide bomb trend seems to have started in Palestine, as a result of the decades long repression and occupation. Then of course there is the issue that we have several million Muslims, largely from Pakistan and Bangladesh, and we are waging war on a neighbouring state, supporting the Israelis, and supporting a military dictatorship in Pakistan. Not surprising some of them are not entirely convinced of our motives.

[Tex]

As someone else said on here, any religion that preaches that women are not to be treated equally is a backwards, intolerant, medievel religion that has no place in this country.

[The Lone Gunman]

From "The Women"

[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, whosell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

I think this is one of the quotes used to support suicide bombers though suicide itself is seen as a sin.

[Not So Wise]

The Bible (new testament) is not the word of God
.

Haha telling any christian true beleiver that and you will be "set right" pronto.