No doubt it's all our fault

[snaw]

Or the death sentence for homosexuality in Indonesia.

Think you're confused on that one - it's not even illegal. And I'm not so sure about Christian's and Muslims in Malaysia, it's a big mixed up country with lot's of intermarriage - what is the issue with it exactly?

[snaw]

Are you off your head, Fungus? Last time I looked you didn't risk being executed in any western country for setting up a mosque or espousing religions other than Christianity.

Take a read through this thread again and tell me if you think there would be an outcry here if we did? That's sort of the point being put across, no ...

[Tex]

Take a read through this thread again and tell me if you think there would be an outcry here if we did? That's sort of the point being put across, no ...

Snaw, you've even more lost the plot than Fungus. Are you seriously saying there are people here who think it acceptable to execute a muslim for practicing Islam in the UK.

[Fungus]

I quite agree that we should not necessarily confuse what corrupt states do with the tenets of Islam, or tribal practices in Islamic countries for that matter.

However, you did not read what I said, which was moderate Islamic states. Look at rules for Christians who marry Muslims in Malysia for example. Or the death sentence for homosexuality in Indonesia. If a practice is carried out in the name of Islam, whether the country is moderate or not, then it is perfectly fair and reasonable to call it Islamic. Can you build a church or publicly read a bible in Saudi Arabia? No. Yet the Saudi governmnent spends a good deal of money funding mosques here.

As for this tulipe about what Christian countries did over a hundred years ago, that is precisely the point behind the charge that Islam is backward. Christian societies have mostly stopped doing it.

PS I expect the Christian Serbs did kill a fair few, but let's get the history right as to who invaded who.

I would not call states such as Indonesia moderate. Quite the opposite.

No I would not say that Islam is backward. Rather Islamic countries are 'backward' in the sense of being dictatorships etc.

You would then be surprised to hear that many (most?) UK Muslims are happier here than in Middle Eastern states on the grounds that they are freer. Using your argument that Islam is rotten to the core woud imply that they want to live there.

Fungus

[Fungus]

Are you off your head, Fungus? Last time I looked you didn't risk being executed in any western country for setting up a mosque or espousing religions other than Christianity.

You didn't read my post did you?

[The Lone Gunman]

For someone who claims they know a lot about it I would have figured you'd know it was written in arabic!

And not being funny but when you talk about the teachers bias ... pot ... kettle black ...

You can't spend a couple of days quoting the Koran and acting like an expert if you're 100% relying on your own sole interpretation of a holy book that experts who differ from you spend a lifetime studying, but you refute quite catagorically.

Arabic. You know, I regularly do that and I dont know why. Probably because it doesnt matter to me.
Pot, kettle, black and experts: Fair enough, but I dont know how else to do this. I dont claim to be an expert and I have offered my understanding ONLY as my understanding and have invited others to make up their own minds! I have said that I may be paranoid!

Dont rely on me. Make up your own mind. I will offer my opinion if asked.

Chico: As I have told you before, I am an atheist. That does not stop me from being fascinated by religion and what drives the believers. To that end I have tried to understand a number of religions, usualy because I met or knew a practitioner or I was visiting a country where it was practiced.

Just because it is a work of fiction doesnt seem to stop those who believe in it using it as an excuse for all kinds of (what I consider to be) barbarism.

Thats enough on this subject, I have done this enough times now.

[snaw]

Snaw, you've even more lost the plot than Fungus. Are you seriously saying there are people here who think it acceptable to execute a muslim for practicing Islam in the UK.

Honestly, there are a handful of people who post here who I'm personally convinced would be quite happy with just that, or at the very least wouldn't be to bothered if it did.

[lilelvis2000]

lilelvis2000 - why did you delete your post ?

your post suggested we took a look at http://www.muslim.org/english-quran/quran.htm

which i did and wanted to respond to..... i just dont understand why you seem to have deleted your post

I realised the site was an Ahmadiyya site and am not sure if the translation they have there is a recognized translation. Considering that there is some question as to whether Ahamadiyya Muslims are in fact Muslims. I will find the same verses on another site - when I get time.

However my point is that anyone can pluck individial verses of any book, put them together and create any message they like.

[Fungus]

Snaw, you've even more lost the plot than Fungus. Are you seriously saying there are people here who think it acceptable to execute a muslim for practicing Islam in the UK.

Yet another person who has not read my posts.

If you lot took the trouble to read them before commenting, you would see references to Muslim countries being "brutal dictatorships". What's more most of these are or were created and/or supported by the West for their own interests. Even Iran was a dictatorship created by the West, and overthrown by anti-democratic loonies.

The difference is that most of you lot seem to think that Muslim countries being barbaric implies that Muslims are inherently barbaric.

China has some barbaric practices so presumably this means that the Chinese people are inately barbaric. Italy has severe problems with the Mafia especially in the South. Presumably that means that the Italians are all Mafiosi?

Fungus