Its funny in 18th century to Victorian times increasing population and industrialisation drove down employment, poverty & dependency (on charitable handouts) was on the rise.
Union power was smashed then remember the Luddites.
During the wars we killed half our workforce which made workers valuable again.
Early to mid 20th century after some of the fastest technical developments in human history (we invented Computers, achieved space travel and high levels of mechanisation). Driven by a shortage of workers and necessity to win world wars. Need for labour fell but still we encouraged immigration and post war baby boom. When all these collided in the 80's with more workers than jobs it was all one politicians fault? Admittedly Maggie was powerful force but she was hardly the first to take on the unions.
This account agrees with my memories of the 70's & 80s and its hardly a right wing view:
The Roots of the Thatcher Onslaught on the Unions and a Radicalising Shop Stewards’ Movement
Do you remember 'Red Robbo' and Scargill?
So Maggie wasn't the only one to smash industry. In fact industry shrank faster under New Lie.
I remember Maggie trying to close 20 pits and concentrate on making the rest profitable:
BBC - Wales - History - Themes - The miners' strike
But as a result of production falling we lost market share to subsidised German coal. Maybe if we mothballed a few pits then we could have handled the falling demand? (it had already halved since the war).
Maybe Maggie should have started subsidising coal unlike the Labour government before her? How would she have paid for that?
It seems a awful lot of pits were closed before Thatcher ever came to power, with the permission of the unions.
Coal is being used less:
http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/s...@@_dukes60.pdf
Of course If Thatcher had rolled over and given in unlike the labour and previous tory governments hadn't would we have had the influx of the American & Japanese companies we saw in the eighties?
Germany kept manufacturing by investing heavily in new plant after the war, we didn't we spent the money on unions and making sure unskilled car workers earned more than policemen or teachers.
How often do you see a British company scrimp on plant or having difficult conversations with the staff. Yet see an American or Japanese company invest?
She Also brought the troubles to an end by stripping them of their money / support and then agreeing to meet them.
Special Reports - America And The Conflict | The Ira & Sinn Fein | FRONTLINE | PBS
I know it says they didn't need American money but you can see how when the funding & support dried up both from their illegal activities in Ireland and from US donations they came to the table.
The only real reason you have to hate Maggie is because she stopped heavily subsidised school milk that was always off when we drank it.
Union power was smashed then remember the Luddites.
During the wars we killed half our workforce which made workers valuable again.
Early to mid 20th century after some of the fastest technical developments in human history (we invented Computers, achieved space travel and high levels of mechanisation). Driven by a shortage of workers and necessity to win world wars. Need for labour fell but still we encouraged immigration and post war baby boom. When all these collided in the 80's with more workers than jobs it was all one politicians fault? Admittedly Maggie was powerful force but she was hardly the first to take on the unions.
This account agrees with my memories of the 70's & 80s and its hardly a right wing view:
The Roots of the Thatcher Onslaught on the Unions and a Radicalising Shop Stewards’ Movement
Car workers, along with other militant sectors such as engineering workers, dockers, printers and miners, were the pace-setters in trade union struggle, and in wages and working conditions, in the 1960s and 1970s. Piecework bargaining had made the car workers the highest paid industrial workers by the 1960s, and they remained so into the 1970s. These militant sectors, however, were not all in the same position. The miners were a key target, of course. They were displaying a new militancy after the doldrums of the 1950s and 1960s when they had suffered extensive pit closures accepted by their union. They were now an increasing challenge to government after their two spectacular victories in 1972 and 1974. They remained, however, too strong to take on. The dockers had defeated the Industrial Relations Act in the struggle over the jailing of the Pentonville Five but were fighting a defensive battle against containerisation and inland ports. Strike levels in print and engineering were not as high as in the car plants. [1]
....
Since it is far easier to destroy than to create, the damage done by the attacks on the unofficial movement was bound to have long-term effects. In Cowley my own victimisation in April 1974 was used by the TGWU to break up long established shopfloor structures. It became a stepping stone to the victimisation of Derek Robinson, in Longbridge, in 1979, in what was a watershed battle for the unions in British Leyland. This in turn had far-reaching implications beyond the car industry. Thus by the end of the 1970s serious damage had been inflicted on some of the most militant sectors of the movement. This, along with Labour’s drift to the right under Wilson and Callaghan and its disastrous incomes policy, not only helped to create conditions for the new realism of the 1980s but provided a basis from which the Tory crusade against trade union strength could be launched. All this is covered in subsequent chapters.
....
Since it is far easier to destroy than to create, the damage done by the attacks on the unofficial movement was bound to have long-term effects. In Cowley my own victimisation in April 1974 was used by the TGWU to break up long established shopfloor structures. It became a stepping stone to the victimisation of Derek Robinson, in Longbridge, in 1979, in what was a watershed battle for the unions in British Leyland. This in turn had far-reaching implications beyond the car industry. Thus by the end of the 1970s serious damage had been inflicted on some of the most militant sectors of the movement. This, along with Labour’s drift to the right under Wilson and Callaghan and its disastrous incomes policy, not only helped to create conditions for the new realism of the 1980s but provided a basis from which the Tory crusade against trade union strength could be launched. All this is covered in subsequent chapters.
So Maggie wasn't the only one to smash industry. In fact industry shrank faster under New Lie.
I remember Maggie trying to close 20 pits and concentrate on making the rest profitable:
BBC - Wales - History - Themes - The miners' strike
But as a result of production falling we lost market share to subsidised German coal. Maybe if we mothballed a few pits then we could have handled the falling demand? (it had already halved since the war).
Maybe Maggie should have started subsidising coal unlike the Labour government before her? How would she have paid for that?
It seems a awful lot of pits were closed before Thatcher ever came to power, with the permission of the unions.
Coal is being used less:
Coal Production and Trade
2.4 UK coal production has seen a general decline since 1952, where levels peaked at 228 million
tonnes. Production levels also plummeted in 1984 as a result of the miners’ strike before recovering
fairly quickly to levels recorded pre-1984, and fell again in the early 1990’s. Figures for 2010 show
that coal production (including an estimate for slurry) increased by a small amount on 2009 (3.0 per
cent) to 18 million tonnes (Chart 2.1)
2.4 UK coal production has seen a general decline since 1952, where levels peaked at 228 million
tonnes. Production levels also plummeted in 1984 as a result of the miners’ strike before recovering
fairly quickly to levels recorded pre-1984, and fell again in the early 1990’s. Figures for 2010 show
that coal production (including an estimate for slurry) increased by a small amount on 2009 (3.0 per
cent) to 18 million tonnes (Chart 2.1)
Production
In the 1950’s and 1960’s virtually all the energy produced in the UK was coal. There
was a small amount of primary electricity, via hydro schemes but all other fuels such
as oil were imported or made from coal such as town gas and electricity. The 5
situation changed dramatically during the 1970’s as the UK started to produce oil and
gas. So by 1980 coal represented 39 per cent of production, crude oil 41 per cent,
gas 16 per cent and primary electricity (nuclear and hydro) 4 per cent
In the 1950’s and 1960’s virtually all the energy produced in the UK was coal. There
was a small amount of primary electricity, via hydro schemes but all other fuels such
as oil were imported or made from coal such as town gas and electricity. The 5
situation changed dramatically during the 1970’s as the UK started to produce oil and
gas. So by 1980 coal represented 39 per cent of production, crude oil 41 per cent,
gas 16 per cent and primary electricity (nuclear and hydro) 4 per cent
Of course If Thatcher had rolled over and given in unlike the labour and previous tory governments hadn't would we have had the influx of the American & Japanese companies we saw in the eighties?
Germany kept manufacturing by investing heavily in new plant after the war, we didn't we spent the money on unions and making sure unskilled car workers earned more than policemen or teachers.
How often do you see a British company scrimp on plant or having difficult conversations with the staff. Yet see an American or Japanese company invest?
She Also brought the troubles to an end by stripping them of their money / support and then agreeing to meet them.
Special Reports - America And The Conflict | The Ira & Sinn Fein | FRONTLINE | PBS
I know it says they didn't need American money but you can see how when the funding & support dried up both from their illegal activities in Ireland and from US donations they came to the table.
The only real reason you have to hate Maggie is because she stopped heavily subsidised school milk that was always off when we drank it.
) was really the work of Sir Keith Joseph, Maggie just went along with it.
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