Cameron to be eaten for breakfast?

[BlasterBates]

The EU would effectively become one nation so the Government would perform all the function and provide all the facilities a national government does.

That is not going to happen. Closer integration yes...i.e. co-ordinating and agreeing policy from head of state to head of state but a super state will not happen. Maybe in 100 years or so but not for the forseeable future. Having lived in several European countries, every single one of them I've lived in has a culture of wanting to remain independent.

[DodgyAgent]

Why cant it work? The UK is Governed from London. Each individual County could be viewed as a "nation" but it works (I know the arguments that say it doesnt). The thing that really stops Europe working now is mainly (IMHO) that those who govern it are far too busy feathering their own nests or gaining concessions for the nation they represent. Very few are conceding to Europe for the common good, though I do see the UK giving up far more than any other member state has. It seems to me that the UK is actually the best European representative. We make a net contribution. We implement the laws as passed by the EU. We have given up our fishing industry, we pay other nations farmers so they do not lose out because they are incapable of competing with ours. We stand against damaging, ridiculous or woolly legislation. This final point is the one the other member nations use to point the UK out as being anti EU.

** I seem to getting into full on rant mode today. Better go away and calm down and do some work.

I would say that the UK is the best country to run Europe. You do not seem to realise that you cannot simply ring fence the economies away from other sovereign responsibilities such as foreign policy, law and defence.

[Arturo Bassick]

That is not going to happen. Closer integration yes...i.e. co-ordinating and agreeing policy from head of state to head of state but a super state will not happen. Maybe in 100 years or so but not for the forseeable future. Having lived in several European countries, every single one of them I've lived in has a culture of wanting to remain independent.

That is my point entirely. Unless Europe can over come that, then it is doomed to never really existing. If it doesn't really exist then the European parliament and all other European institutions are a pretence and should be binned. It has long been my belief that the EU should be all or nothing. When I say nothing I mean something similar to the common market would be OK. Until unity can be achieved then a common currency is a farce.

[BlasterBates]

[QUOTE=DodgyAgent;1430321]

But you have not explained how the EU would run and implement the finances of say Greece have you?

The EU isn't going to run Greece, but as in the same way with the IMF they will only hand over money when Greece cuts it's deficit.

Let us compare Hitler to Angela Merkel:

Hitler invaded countries and put soldiers in charge.
Angela Merkel is offering billions of pounds which they can accept or refuse as they wish.

I see what you mean, there is a startling similarity here.

[Mich the Tester]

As usual you're missing the point spectacularly.
The Greeks and Italians are being forced to accept unelected representatives to govern them. They should have been given the choice via referenda/elections.
The cabinet of Italy is now totally comprised of unelected ministers.HTH, BIDI.

Yep, but the public are still represented by parliament (for what Italian parliamentarians are worth). I'm actually interested to see this experiment; a cabinet made up of people who know what they're talking about, held responsible by the elected representatives. It's actually the way that many European government systems and constitutions were originally designed; an executive held responsible by the representatives who can chuck them out if they fook up. I understand that in Britain, which has a very different kind of democratic structure, people would be nervous about this, but it's not a concept that's really unusual on 'le continent'.

[sasguru]

Angela Merkel is offering billions of pounds which they can accept or refuse as they wish..

Is that why she phoned the ex-Greek PM and told him not to have the referendum.
And didn't even care who knew it.

[DodgyAgent]

That is my point entirely. Unless Europe can over come that, then it is doomed to never really existing. If it doesn't really exist then the European parliament and all other European institutions are a pretence and should be binned. It has long been my belief that the EU should be all or nothing. When I say nothing I mean something similar to the common market would be OK. Until unity can be achieved then a common currency is a farce.

The EU should be run like NATO - no MEPs and no European Commission. Free trade area where markets and labour compete - free movement of labour and that is it.

[doodab]

Yep, but the public are still represented by parliament (for what Italian parliamentarians are worth). I'm actually interested to see this experiment; a cabinet made up of people who know what they're talking about, held responsible by the elected representatives. It's actually the way that many European government systems and constitutions were originally designed; an executive held responsible by the representatives who can chuck them out if they fook up. I understand that in Britain, which has a very different kind of democratic structure, people would be nervous about this, but it's not a concept that's really unusual on 'le continent'.

It's certainly one possible future system of government, tell the experts what we want and let them sort if out. Eventually we'll have incorruptible computerised AI experts with no hidden agendas. It'll be great.

[DodgyAgent]

Yep, but the public are still represented by parliament (for what Italian parliamentarians are worth). I'm actually interested to see this experiment; a cabinet made up of people who know what they're talking about, held responsible by the elected representatives. It's actually the way that many European government systems and constitutions were originally designed; an executive held responsible by the representatives who can chuck them out if they fook up. I understand that in Britain, which has a very different kind of democratic structure, people would be nervous about this, but it's not a concept that's really unusual on 'le continent'.

As Nigel farage puts it:

Failure to tackle the eurozone crisis has produced a "German-dominated Europe", UK Independence Party leader Nigel Farage has said.

He claimed that German Chancellor Angela Merkel had taken charge because of the lack of leadership by a group of men - European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, Economic Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn, European Council President Herman Van Rompuy and Jean-Claude Juncker, the Luxembourg Prime Minister who is chairman of the eurozone group of EU countries.

"Who is in charge?" Mr Farage demanded during a European Parliament debate on the crisis.

"None of you have any democratic legitimacy for the roles you hold. Into this vacuum steps Angela Merkel, and we are now living in a German-dominated Europe, something this European Union was supposed to stop."

He said Europe's leaders had had the Greek Prime Minister "removed and replaced by a puppet government", and then "you decided that Silvio Berlusconi has to go and replaced him with Mario Monti, a former commissioner and fellow architect of this disaster, who is not even a member of parliament".

[Mich the Tester]

The EU should be run like NATO - no MEPs and no European Commission. Free trade area where markets and labour compete - free movement of labour and that is it.

Yep, never understood why you need a big bureaucracy to implement deregulation.