Cameron to be eaten for breakfast?

[TheFaQQer]

I wonder if Dave will do one of his hilarious impersonations of another world leader.

[doodab]

I wonder if Dave will do one of his hilarious impersonations of another world leader.

Perhaps he'll opt for Merkel's terribly famous but rather unpopular predecessor.

[DodgyAgent]

Hang on, isn't it reasonable having got yourself in debt for the country who is expected to bail you out to put some terms and conditions?

So the UK is busy complaining about Germany bossing round Greece and Italy; so why doesn't the UK step in and open it's cheque book then?

Typical sit on the sidelines tight fisted and do nothing but complain about the one who's actually keeping the whole thing afloat.

Nobody is being forced to do anything but as is typical of someone who sponges off you, they're always ungrateful when they have to pay it back.

What an extraordinary thing to say. Which orchard should we be picking the money from? The quid pro quo of not joining the Euro is that we do not share any responsibility for the behaviour of sovereign governments using the same currency. Why on earth should we bail out Greece? Would you bail out someone you didnt know who had borrowed too much money?

The Greeks should be allowed to pull out of the Euro and if this means defaulting on debt then so be it. The Germans are in it up to their necks because they instigated the Euro. They are the ones who have benefitted the most from the Euro.

Britain has every right to complain. We are part of the EU and chose not to join the Euro which is perfectly our right. So as a member of the EU it is not at all unreasonable for the UK to challenge the way that the Euro is run.

[DodgyAgent]

It is precisely because national sovereignty exists that nations are able charge headlong into ruin. If all EU nations were governed centrally then the incredible profligacy of the ruined nations would not even could not have happened, unless of course the whole EU headed down the same route.

Which is true as long as you also understand that such a system would have no democratic accountability. This would mean that the whole of Europe would be run by a junta in Brussels. If you look at the individuals who currently make up the ruling classes of the EU then it would be frightening to allow these people to make decisions without being answerable to anyone.

[BlasterBates]

It is precisely because national sovereignty exists that nations are able charge headlong into ruin. If all EU nations were governed centrally then the incredible profligacy of the ruined nations would not even could not have happened, unless of course the whole EU headed down the same route.

Well they are applying a constraint, but even when that is "EU law", any country can still stick two fingers up and drive itself into financial ruin, that will not change, even after changing the constitution. But what it would do, would be to force a profligate country out of the Eurozone, before it becomes a problem. i.e. lets say the crisis has been solved and in 2041 Bulgaria runs up a 4% deficit, then the EU could say "Bulgaria get your debt down NOW!!! or we'll throw you out the Euro." That's what the new rules would enable. No-one gives up sovereignty as such, other than governments commit because it's in their own interests.

[TheFaQQer]

Perhaps he'll opt for Merkel's terribly famous but rather unpopular predecessor.

He'll look like a Hemut?

[BlasterBates]

Which is true as long as you also understand that such a system would have no democratic accountability. This would mean that the whole of Europe would be run by a junta in Brussels. If you look at the individuals who currently make up the ruling classes of the EU then it would be frightening to allow these people to make decisions without being answerable to anyone.

Completely overdone, you always give the impression that the EU actually runs countries. The tanks won't come rolling down to Athens if Greece leaves the EU. That won't change. But new rules will mean Brussels can effectively throw a country out of the Euro if they don't abide the rules.

Countries can ignore EU legislation whenever they want. Obviously if they do their right to trade with other countries may be withdrawn, not by the EU but each country in the EU, and of course each EU country would put up a diifferent set of trade barriers, or even maybe none at all.

The EU is nothing more than inter country trade agreement. Nothing more or less.

[DodgyAgent]

It is precisely because national sovereignty exists that nations are able charge headlong into ruin. If all EU nations were governed centrally then the incredible profligacy of the ruined nations would not even could not have happened, unless of course the whole EU headed down the same route.

That is exactly what Hitler thought. he thought he could control Europe without any need for democratic accountability. He emerged from the ruins of the post WW1 Economic collapse of Germany. Just imagine letting loose the thousands of little hitlers in Brussels. Do you really think that this bunch of people would act sensibly??? Name me one single individual in the EU who could (and more importantly would) run the economy of Greece better than the Greeks. The loss of sovereignty ensuing from this mess (created entirely by the bureaucrats of the EU) is an Orwellian nightmare. We will be living in Oceania.

[Arturo Bassick]

Which is true as long as you also understand that such a system would have no democratic accountability. This would mean that the whole of Europe would be run by a junta in Brussels. If you look at the individuals who currently make up the ruling classes of the EU then it would be frightening to allow these people to make decisions without being answerable to anyone.

In my vision the method of governance would have to change. Elected representatives only. Similar to UK or US possibly.

No idea how you would implement it mind.

It also covers blasters point. No nation state could borrow individually as the whole thing would be centrally governed.

[DodgyAgent]

Completely overdone, you always give the impression that the EU actually runs countries. The tanks won't come rolling down to Athens if Greece leaves the EU. That won't change. But new rules will mean Brussels can effectively throw a country out of the Euro if they don't abide the rules.

Countries can ignore EU legislation whenever they want. Obviously if they do their right to trade with other countries may be withdrawn, not by the EU but each country in the EU, and of course each EU country would put up a diifferent set of trade barriers, or even maybe none at all.

The EU is nothing more than inter country trade agreement. Nothing more or less.

OK so which authority presides over the Greek budget and ensures that it is implemented?