The Facts and Fiction on Global Warming

[Churchill]

Read State of Fear by Michael Crichton - yes it is a novel but scientific based and scores some excellent points. Temperature variation is natural and has always occurred, things will stabilise as they always have.

I enjoyed reading it. Lots of factual quotes.

[GrizzledVet]

If more people list enironmental (sic) issues as a major concern then politicians take notice

Tell me, dear boy, when you have finished your Farley's Rusks and been winded, how that authoratitive dictate above will have any resonance with a family living on a sink-estate trying to survive on a pittance wage ?

Do you not think they are more troubled with the concerns with their immediate situation ? Bills, Taxes, Crime, Survival ?

The fact that it might get a bit sloshy in Holland in about 50 years time, or some icky insect in Timbucktoo is going to be extinct is not at the top of the list of their priorities.

You seem to suggest that it should be, don't you ?

Tell you what....put your money where your mouth is and pop down to to a local sink estate, bang on the door of Mr and Mrs Asbo, and tell them...

"Sorry to be a nuisance, but in an unspecified amount of time, the greater crested titf ucker is going to be extinct due to global warming. You need to do something about it now, because I'm a sanctimonious little git who gets off telling other people what they should or shouldn't do."

Keep us updated from the phone beside the hospital bed.

[The Master]

it's undisputed that the rate of change is unprecedented in the earth's hostory and the most likely cause for the excelerated change is us.

Actually it's disputed by quite a lot of people.

For an outstanding overview of the facts as they are known today, detached from all the scare stories, hyperbole and hidden agenda on both sides of the argument, I highly recommend you listen to this programme broadcast on Radio 4 last week.

Overselling Climate Change

Thursday 20 April 2006 20:00-20:30 (Radio 4 FM)

Simon Cox reports on how scientists are becoming worried by the quality of research used to back up the most extreme climate predictions.

Every week we are assailed by scare stories about the climate. Malaria in Africa, hurricanes in Florida, even the death of frogs in Latin America - all are being linked to global warming. But does the science behind these claims really stand up, or are the risks of climate change being oversold to win the battle for influence?

[GrizzledVet]

Ah, well said Master !

From one bearded one to another, I appreciate your diligence in obtaining some ammunition to see this Snaw fellow off.

[xoggoth]

I do notice from links on that that the argument seems to have shifted from "there is no global warming" to "some of the figures are grossly exagerrated" Maybe there is exaggeration, it sells papers, but the previous denial was daft.

PS Research at the xoggoth institute predicts a rise of 450 'C within 30 years. We are never wrong.

[GrizzledVet]

I think it's a case that some of the figures are exaggerated, some are under estimated, some are so wildly wrong as to make crime statistics respectable, and some are just plucked out of thin air.

In other words, the whole lot is a sham, and the energy required to sort through the whole lot, to arrive at a set of figures which you *think* sounds about right (but is in fact a probable lie anyway), is just pointless.

You might as well make up your own figures. Like you did, Xoggoth. Or are yours based on research ?

Even the word "rigorous research" cannot be trusted anymore, since one person's version of rigorous, is another's slapdash effort. And research is almost always underpinned by ulterior motives. Can't remember the last time I read anything impartial.

Anyway, according to research, the Sun will scorch the Earth to dust in about 3 billion years anyway. So global warming is a moot point.

You see, that's the trouble with the short-termists, always looking at the short term view of what we can do now, and never looking over the horizon at the long term that says we're fekked anway.

[Fungus]

Yep two main reasons.

1. If anyone disagrees with the 'commonly held view' they get torn to pieces by their peers professionally and personally and will be lucky ever to work again or even look through research/lab windows fom the outside with out getting nicked/lynched.

and that good ole favourite

2. Money.


Bush and whoever may spew non-facts or lies about GW but the apparent 'good guys' don't behave like good guys so its tough to believe anything they say.

Didn't people once get flayed alive for believing or suggesting that the world wasn't flat? at the time it didn't matter whether they were right or wrong what mattered was the behaviour of the people doing the flaying????

That's the biggest pile of nonsense I've read in, oh at least 10 seconds.

Having worked for many years as a professional scientist, all I can say is that you don't understand how science works. The conclusion of point 1. is that science does not advance or change. In fact the whole point is that science advances based on the available evidence. Massive increases in CO2 are based on evidence and not wishful thinking. Uncertainty exists because the subject is complex, and draws in scientists from a wide range of disciplines. I believe few consider man made global warming a fact but most consider it by far the most probable explanation of observations and adopt the precautionary principle. Any scientist who had a clever idea for an experiment that could support, or disprove for good global warming, would have no problem getting funding were the experiment to be practical and based on good science. In fact that is exactly how scientists get funding.

Point 2. is odd. The big money is with the Bush administration and the oil companies who fund research to disprove global warming.

Galileo was placed under house arrest by the Church for his views. The world was a very different place them. A bit like a modern (sic) Muslim state.

[Fungus]

Read State of Fear by Michael Crichton - yes it is a novel but scientific based and scores some excellent points. Temperature variation is natural and has always occurred, things will stabilise as they always have.

Current levels of carbon dioxide are not natural. Nor is the increase.

Over 100's of millions of years carbon deposits were laid down in the form of trees and microorganisms which gradually became oil and coal. We are releasing the majority of that carbon back into the atmosphere as CO2 in the space of a century. That is not natural. And unlike the dust from a volcanic eruption it won't disappear in 10 years or so.

[Fungus]

Actually it's disputed by quite a lot of people.

For an outstanding overview of the facts as they are known today, detached from all the scare stories, hyperbole and hidden agenda on both sides of the argument, I highly recommend you listen to this programme broadcast on Radio 4 last week.

Overselling Climate Change

Thursday 20 April 2006 20:00-20:30 (Radio 4 FM)

Simon Cox reports on how scientists are becoming worried by the quality of research used to back up the most extreme climate predictions.

Every week we are assailed by scare stories about the climate. Malaria in Africa, hurricanes in Florida, even the death of frogs in Latin America - all are being linked to global warming. But does the science behind these claims really stand up, or are the risks of climate change being oversold to win the battle for influence?

I heard that programme. The thesis was that global warming is real but that some scientists either have a tendency to over egg the pudding to get media attention, or they are naive in dealing with the media, and hence careless about press releases.

[Sergeant Apone]

I heard that programme. The thesis was that global warming is real but that some scientists either have a tendency to over egg the pudding to get media attention, or they are naive in dealing with the media, and hence careless about press releases.

I heard it too. Excellent overview of the facts. There was also the allegation that pressure groups like Greenpeace are simply dreaming up alarming scenarios in order to panic concerned voters into giving them money.