Working hours

[doodab]

Exactly.

What do you REALLY understand about IR35?

Most seem to use it to hide behind as a way for working whatever hours they like.

A professional working day is usually a lot more than finishing like a 9-5 permie at 5pm.

If you are a true contractor, you cannot wish for fluffy permie family friendly hours, and need to make arrangements and manage this accordingly.

If work life balance with hours you like are important, get a permie job with flex time and stop whinging.

<Wilmslow in Tell it as it is mode>

One of the advantages of being a true contractor is that you can pick your gigs to suit your lifestyle. Sometimes you have to suck it up until something more suitable comes along but it's by no means the case that you can't negotiate hours to suit you and a lot of places will be just as flexible for contractors as they are for their own staff.

[AtW]

FIFO

That's a big word for an agent.

[eek]

One of the advantages of being a true contractor is that you can pick your gigs to suit your lifestyle. Sometimes you have to suck it up until something more suitable comes along but it's by no means the case that you can't negotiate hours to suit you and a lot of places will be just as flexible for contractors as they are for their own staff.

In my experience firms are either totally flexible or non-flexible for everyone. By the sounds of this firm, as 5:30 is core hours its a non flexible company so I don't think Wilmslow's point would stand up.

[Old Greg]

My preferences are similar and I am now doing a long commute so would like to see my little ones at some point in the week. Next week I'm going to start going in at 8:15 and heading off at 4:30, but if there's a meeting after 4:30 i'll stay for it.

I think they'll be O.K. with this as they are flexible with permies, but if not, then I guess it will be time to move on, which would be a shame as I've just got there.

The way I see IR35, is that they don't control you, but if they don't like it they are at liberty to terminate the contract. Equally, you can terminate (giving apprpriate notice) if it doens't work for you.

[malvolio]

One more time...

If the attendance hours are necessary for you to do yuor job properly, and if they apply equally to permies and contractors in trhe same role, it is NOT a D&C issue and so is IR35 neutral. If the client is insisting simply to make the car park look full between certain hours, then it is a D&C issue and a big IR35 no-no. If it's not in your contract, they can't enforce it, but as has been said, you may not be there long enough to debate the point.

As an aside, an 8 hour day is not a Professsional Working Day, it's an hourly contract giving the client free hours for working overtime. A PWD means you charge a set amount for working during any 24 hour period, regardless of how long for.

[VectraMan]

In my experience firms are either totally flexible or non-flexible for everyone. By the sounds of this firm, as 5:30 is core hours its a non flexible company so I don't think Wilmslow's point would stand up.

WHS. I had a client that insisted on 8-5 for everybody, which was okay and most people who want flexible hours want to come in earlier, but they wouldn't entertain any idea of exceptions for contractors.

I wish people would stop seeing everything in terms of IR35. The important word is "client" - i.e. the company whose requirements you're there to fulfill. There's no reason at all why they have to be reasonable about anything and you have no right to anything different. You just need to negotiate or walk.

[somewebguy]

I wish people would stop seeing everything in terms of IR35. The important word is "client" - i.e. the company whose requirements you're there to fulfill. There's no reason at all why they have to be reasonable about anything and you have no right to anything different. You just need to negotiate or walk.

I do agree with that, however, we have a duty for our working practices to be consistent with our contracts. And it depends on how much of a risk you want to take with IR35. All about balance.

[somewebguy]

Free overtime.

Which is why I've never ever worked a PWD.

If you want my time, you pay for it.

I have just checked my contract and it actually says "Normal Working Hours". Not sure if there is a difference, but it seems to be very open to interpretation.

[somewebguy]

If the attendance hours are necessary for you to do yuor job properly, and if they apply equally to permies and contractors in trhe same role, it is NOT a D&C issue and so is IR35 neutral. If the client is insisting simply to make the car park look full between certain hours, then it is a D&C issue and a big IR35 no-no.

They say it is to get the developers to work the same hours. But that is not going to happen anyway, as many of them come in later and some come in earlier. By trying the "core" hours, I am the only one actually doing the core hours!

[eek]

I have just checked my contract and it actually says "Normal Working Hours". Not sure if there is a difference, but it seems to be very open to interpretation.

That sounds far worse than "professional working day". It implies that you will work the normal working hours the permies do and doesn't give you the leeway of being different. I wouldn't be very happy to see that in a contract and would have changed it to read professional working day for my own peace of mind.