Harperson proposes sexual discrimination in the workplace

[DodgyAgent]

I don't think it is artificial. If you look at the things that women are traditionally supposed to be good at - organisation, planning, multi-tasking - they look to be good for business. I don't think men should behave like women, but nor should women behave like men. What is the 'inherent nature' of a board room (or parliament) that makes it more suitable for men? The culture of business has evolved round men over centuries, and that culture makes it hard for women to get the top jobs. And I think the fact that caring professions are amongst the lowest paid undermines the argument that feminine traits are equally valued by society. It's early days in terms of sexual equality and things will change, but only if we critically question the status quo. Only a hundred years ago, black people were considered intellectually inferior - the 1911 edition of Encylopaedia Britannica has an entry for Negro which says "Mentally the negro is inferior to the white... the arrest or even deterioration of mental development [after adolescence] is no doubt very largely due to the fact that after puberty sexual matters take the first place in the negro's life and thoughts." Shocking.

To equate the lot with women in our society today with what the black "negros" had to go through and women of yesteryear is a gross and insulting exploitation of moral equivalence.
Women do not wish to get into the boardroom and those that do do not have to behave like men.
Women already have the best of both worlds. They can choose a career and drop out of it to have kids, when they return to the workplace they are not judged by "dropping out to have kids". women can turn their hand to any job and they are never questioned.

A man on the other hand who has a blip in his career, takes a year off, makes a wrong career decision or simply doesnt advance through the ranks quickly enough is damned and challenged ad infinitum. men have to live through the stress of building a career in a way that women do not.

The same applies to politics. Women are simply not interested which is why so few compared to men enter into it. Women have their own way of influencing what goes on in the world without having to have egos stroked by doing it in a boardroom or the house of commons.

If women wanted "top jobs" or wanted to run parliament they would do so.

[wim121]

Jeez, you've met some horrible women.

Ive found there are a lot of horrible people irrespective of gender. Not many people have the social graces I would hope for in todays society. People tend to be cruel in general ....

Wonder what the common denominator was?

Care to explain what you mean?

Was that some kind of snide attack on me personally? Or have I misread your tone?


Regardless of what you think or believe, im often the quiet one in the corner, not loud or brash and try to be polite to the general public. Im not an arrogant drunk fratboy or whatever other image you might have of me.

[wim121]

Women already have the best of both worlds. They can choose a career and drop out of it to have kids, when they return to the workplace they are not judged by "dropping out to have kids". women can turn their hand to any job and they are never questioned.

A man on the other hand who has a blip in his career, takes a year off, makes a wrong career decision or simply doesnt advance through the ranks quickly enough is damned and challenged ad infinitum. men have to live through the stress of building a career in a way that women do not.

The same applies to politics. Women are simply not interested which is why so few compared to men enter into it. Women have their own way of influencing what goes on in the world without having to have egos stroked by doing it in a boardroom or the house of commons.

If women wanted "top jobs" or wanted to run parliament they would do so.

Very good point well made ...

[mudskipper]

To equate the lot with women in our society today with what the black "negros" had to go through and women of yesteryear is a gross and insulting exploitation of moral equivalence.

Agreed - my intention was not to equate the current position of women with the position of black people, but to point out that attitudes that were accepted as fact can be questioned and changed.

To conclude, I don't think women are oppressed or overtly discriminated against, but my argument was that society is structured in a way that makes it much harder for a woman to reach the top in business than a man. Others disagree and have presented a number of other suggestions as to why this may be - 'male' characteristics more suited to business or lack of ambition (a male characteristic?)

Anyway - I doubt we'll agree and I don't have any more to add to the discussion, which has mostly been thought provoking, so will agree to disagree.

[mudskipper]

Ive found there are a lot of horrible people irrespective of gender. Not many people have the social graces I would hope for in todays society. People tend to be cruel in general ....







Care to explain what you mean?

Was that some kind of snide attack on me personally? Or have I misread your tone?


Regardless of what you think or believe, im often the quiet one in the corner, not loud or brash and try to be polite to the general public. Im not an arrogant drunk fratboy or whatever other image you might have of me.

Re-read your post.

[NotAllThere]

... the arrest or even deterioration of mental development [after adolescence] is no doubt very largely due to the fact that after puberty sexual matters take the first place in the (person's) life and thoughts." Shocking.

Typical man, in other words.

[wim121]

Re-read your post.

I dont need to, Im well aware of what I wrote.

Why do you try to dodge explaining your comment?

[SueEllen]

I dont need to, Im well aware of what I wrote.

Why do you try to dodge explaining your comment?

Your idea of what people think is not actually what they think as you aren't in their heads to know what they think.

So for example you writing that you can't say good morning to a woman because you think that woman think you are a predator, when in fact there are many reasons why they haven't answered you indicates you have issues.

BTW people **** me off when they decide to tell me what men and women can't do or do in general. Even if it's something simple like stating men can't wrap presents or women can't parallel park a car in an awkward space. I have been brought up in a big enough family of both genders to know what people can and can't do or do do is nothing to do with gender but their own capabilities.

[wim121]

Your idea of what people think is not actually what they think as you aren't in their heads to know what they think.

I never presumed to be. That's why, I asked k2p2 for instance to elaborate as I didnt have enough information to judge in what way she meant her comment.

So for example you writing that you can't say good morning to a woman because you think that woman think you are a predator, when in fact there are many reasons why they haven't answered you indicates you have issues.

I never said they never answered me.

I said there are some women that will snap and assume the whole world is out to rape them. There are some feminists that walk straight through you, then shout and scream that you attacked them. After a while you learn to avoid them.

I dont see how you deduce from other peoples behaviour, any issues on my part. I would be happy to greet a man or a woman, however from experience, as I have already stated, some people arent interested in being civil members of society.

BTW people **** me off when they decide to tell me what men and women can't do or do in general. Even if it's something simple like stating men can't wrap presents or women can't parallel park a car in an awkward space.

I agree, so I fail to see why you address such a point with me?

I never said women are incapable of doing such things. In fact, if you read my earlier long post, you will see that's one thing that annoys me as well, when people presume that a woman can be a housewife, looking after children, however a man cant.

Society is very judgemental and sexist.

[wim121]

Your idea of what people think is not actually what they think as you aren't in their heads to know what they think.

So for example you writing that you can't say good morning to a woman because you think that woman think you are a predator, when in fact there are many reasons why they haven't answered you indicates you have issues.

BTW people **** me off when they decide to tell me what men and women can't do or do in general. Even if it's something simple like stating men can't wrap presents or women can't parallel park a car in an awkward space. I have been brought up in a big enough family of both genders to know what people can and can't do or do do is nothing to do with gender but their own capabilities.

PS: Also, I fail to see your anger or problem here? I was asking someone else what they meant, as their comment was very unclear and I did so in a civil manner.

Then you seem to fly in to a rage, resorting to a personal attack and swearing when there isnt any need for it. Im baffled at your hostility to be honest, since the conversation didnt even involve you.