Is capitalism failing?

[sasguru]

I have met a Cuban bloke (in Cuba) who was able to talk freely. He was very angry with the Cuban system, but loves Cuba - so much so that he went back after being one of the very few allowed to leave and travel freely.

Many young Cubans will no doubt follow the same path of disappointment that average folk in the Communist bloc did. The fact is that under Capitalism the average Joe is still a slave - as Joe Stummer once observed, it's still the same people driving around in the black limos (SAS in this case evidently). Unfortunately a lot of people thought that "freedom" would deliver wealth too.

Well black 4 year old Mazda MPS, which is much the same thing

[BlasterBates]

I have met a Cuban bloke (in Cuba) who was able to talk freely. He was very angry with the Cuban system, but loves Cuba - so much so that he went back after being one of the very few allowed to leave and travel freely.

Many young Cubans will no doubt follow the same path of disappointment that average folk in the Communist bloc did. The fact is that under Capitalism the average Joe is still a slave - as Joe Stummer once observed, it's still the same people driving around in the black limos (SAS in this case evidently). Unfortunately a lot of people thought that "freedom" would deliver wealth too.

I visited a few European cities while they were still communist. We drove around in a luxurious air conditioned coach. They drove around in little loud tin boxes belching out fumes, the ones with cars that is, because a lot of them didn't have them. Their cities had grey tenements with tiny little flats, were filthy, covered in an acidic smog, the shops were devoid of anything were buying, there were hardly any bars, not that you'd really want to go in when there was one, and if you did have a TV, all you could watch was the boring political drivel from the state.

Imagine what Britain was like in the 1950's then imagine what it would have been like if everything had been allowed to decay and become delapitated over 40 years.

We might be slaves but we can drive round in big SUV's, have computers, several electric guitars, and a house with double glazing and central heating, and we can fly once a year to get p***ed in the Med.

[sasguru]

We might be slaves but we can drive round in big SUV's, have computers, several electric guitars, and a house with double glazing and central heating, and we can fly once a year to get p***ed in the Med.

Actually those of us who bought loads of property when it was cheap as chips can have all those things and not even be slaves

HTH

[DodgyAgent]

I visited a few European cities while they were still communist. We drove around in a luxurious air conditioned coach. They drove around in little loud tin boxes belching out fumes, the ones with cars that is, because a lot of them didn't have them. Their cities had grey tenements with tiny little flats, were filthy, covered in an acidic smog, the shops were devoid of anything were buying, there were hardly any bars, not that you'd really want to go in when there was one, and if you did have a TV, all you could watch was the boring political drivel from the state.

Imagine what Britain was like in the 1950's then imagine what it would have been like if everything had been allowed to decay and become delapitated over 40 years.

We might be slaves but we can drive round in big SUV's, have computers, several electric guitars, and a house with double glazing and central heating, and we can fly once a year to get p***ed in the Med.

And we can criticise whoever we want

[doodab]

And we can criticise whoever we want

That really has feck all to do with capitalism vs communism. There are plenty of oppressive regimes with free market economies.

[stek]

I visited a few European cities while they were still communist. We drove around in a luxurious air conditioned coach. They drove around in little loud tin boxes belching out fumes, the ones with cars that is, because a lot of them didn't have them. Their cities had grey tenements with tiny little flats, were filthy, covered in an acidic smog, the shops were devoid of anything were buying, there were hardly any bars, not that you'd really want to go in when there was one, and if you did have a TV, all you could watch was the boring political drivel from the state.

Imagine what Britain was like in the 1950's then imagine what it would have been like if everything had been allowed to decay and become delapitated over 40 years.

We might be slaves but we can drive round in big SUV's, have computers, several electric guitars, and a house with double glazing and central heating, and we can fly once a year to get p***ed in the Med.

So did I, and the last one I did on my great Communist rail tour in 1984 was Budapest, Hungary - now that was communism working, lovely place, plenty of everything, fit blonde birds, though I understand they did have some semblance of entrepreneurism.

Previous city, Bucharest, was a shiithole.

Spent some time in Sweden too, maybe socialist not communist but still that way on, wonderful social safety net. Stonking taxes tho!

And my old Soviet Russian friends always claimed ideologically the USSR was only ever socialist, not communist. Communism was the goal and they weren't there. And they never will be, the place is a free-for-all now.

[DodgyAgent]

That really has feck all to do with capitalism vs communism. There are plenty of oppressive regimes with free market economies.

It has everything to do with it. capitalism is a free for all - strongest survive whereas communism is not a natural environment for people to live and work in, so it relies heavily on some sort of state control. There are no regimes that have created any sort of wealth or affluence and no communist regime has been able to operate under anything less than a dictatorship.

[sasguru]

It has everything to do with it. capitalism is a free for all - strongest survive whereas communism is not a natural environment for people to live and work in, so it relies heavily on some sort of state control. There are no regimes that have created any sort of wealth or affluence and no communist regime has been able to operate under anything less than a dictatorship.

I don't think pure communism has been tried in a modern state anywhere.
But it was rife in ancient societies where the kill was shared according to need - and it accounts for the survival of the human race.

HTH

[DodgyAgent]

I don't think pure communism has been tried in a modern state anywhere.
But it was rife in ancient societies where the kill was shared according to need - and it accounts for the survival of the human race.

HTH

Of course it has never been tried it is totally unworkable because the forces of capitalism (self interest) prevail upon a communist society.

As in:

everyone is equal but some are more equal than others.

[sasguru]

Of course it has never been tried it is totally unworkable because the forces of capitalism (self interest) prevail upon a communist society.

As in:

everyone is equal but some are more equal than others.

Capitalism has never been tried properly for the same reason.