Even though we were completely wrong, doesn't mean we are wrong

**AtW** · 27 January 2011, 20:26

You got the wrong thread mate, this one is for you.

**EternalOptimist** · 27 January 2011, 20:29

Originally posted by DimPrawn View Post

A mistake over Himalayan glaciers should not melt our priorities | Bob Ward | Environment | guardian.co.uk

A mistake over Himalayan glaciers should not melt our prioritiesClimate change sceptics may seize upon WWF's unfortunate mistake over Himalayan glaciers, but this doesn't change the truth about global warming

Himalayan glaciers not melting because of climate change, report finds - Telegraph

Himalayan glaciers not melting because of climate change, report finds.

Himalayan glaciers are actually advancing rather than retreating, claims the first major study since a controversial UN report said they would be melted within quarter of a century.

Apologies if this has been done already, but come on, the whole AGW/CO2 bandwagon has lost another wheel!

If it wasn't for all the needless CO2 taxes strangling business and draining ordinary people of their hard-earned I'd be laughing my ******* head off.

In other news, Trenberth (a prominant AGW believer) has moderated his language a bit. (which is nice, because even we sceptics are decent people).

He now draws a distinction between 'deniers' and sceptics.

in his mind, a 'denier' is someone who refuses to believe that the planet is warming, and that sea levels are rising. (the word denier has echoes of the holocaust, green house gas has echoes of zyclon-B, etc. so denier is a horrible word to use in scientific debate)

a sceptic is someone who accepts all the evidence of climate change, but does not subscribe to the position that it is man made (it is a natural cycle).

so hallelujah, I am no longer a gasser and a murderer, I have a natural scientific desire to be persudaded, rather than to embrace a fad.

This is actually a BIG shift in position, by the CAGW believers. and I welcome it

**cojak** · 27 January 2011, 22:39

Originally posted by EternalOptimist View Post

He now draws a distinction between 'deniers' and sceptics.

in his mind, a 'denier' is someone who refuses to believe that the planet is warming, and that sea levels are rising. (the word denier has echoes of the holocaust, green house gas has echoes of zyclon-B, etc. so denier is a horrible word to use in scientific debate)
have a natural scientific desire to be persudaded, rather than to embrace a fad.

For me it's all relative. 100 denier = winter, 10 denier = summer.

**EternalOptimist** · 27 January 2011, 23:33

Originally posted by cojak View Post

For me it's all relative. 100 denier = winter, 10 denier = summer.

**pjclarke** · 28 January 2011, 01:43

I have told you a bejillion times - don't exaggerate.

I've heard of harsh but If one factual error - not mentioned in any of the summaries - in a 3,000 page report equates to being 'completely wrong', then I'd hate for you to do my performance appraisals ....

Here's a little perspective, the mistake was ...

... not the proper IPCC projection of future glacier decline, which is found in Volume 1 of the report. There we find a 45-page, perfectly valid chapter on glaciers, snow and ice (Chapter 4), with the authors including leading glacier experts. There are also several pages on future glacier decline in Chapter 10 (“Global Climate Projections”), where the proper projections are used e.g. to estimate future sea level rise. So the problem here is not that the IPCC’s glacier experts made an incorrect prediction. The problem is that a WG2 chapter, instead of relying on the proper IPCC projections from their WG1 colleagues, cited an unreliable outside source in one place. Fixing this error involves deleting two sentences on page 493 of the WG2 report.

(WG1 = Working Group 1, the physical science, WG2 = Impacts and mitigation.)

Oh, and I know facts are not the done thing around here however the study found that, throughout the Himalayas as a whole, in common with the rest of the world, most glaciers are retreating.

**BlasterBates** · 28 January 2011, 05:01

Glaciers have been retreating since the 18th century, sometimes they retreat a bit quicker sometimes a bit slower, and in the next few hundred years or maybe a lot sooner they'll start advancing again. The Alpine glaciers are still further forward than in Roman times, and there are still villages covered in ice from the advance in the Middle ages.

**OwlHoot** · 28 January 2011, 07:56

Originally posted by BlasterBates View Post

The Alpine glaciers are still further forward than in Roman times, and there are still villages covered in ice from the advance in the Middle ages.

Remember that 5300 year old stone age guy, Ötzi the Iceman, they found preserved in the Alps a few years ago?

He only came to light because the ice round him had recently started melting; but when the position of all his clobber and his body was later analyzed, along with the ages of pollen grains and so forth, it became clear the ice must also have melted to the same extent about 2000 years ago, at which time everything floated around in a large puddle and rearranged itself before the ice froze again.

**ThomasSoerensen** · 28 January 2011, 09:35

Originally posted by OwlHoot View Post

Remember that 5300 year old stone age guy, Ötzi the Iceman, they found preserved in the Alps a few years ago?

He only came to light because the ice round him had recently started melting; but when the position of all his clobber and his body was later analyzed, along with the ages of pollen grains and so forth, it became clear the ice must also have melted to the same extent about 2000 years ago, at which time everything floated around in a large puddle and rearranged itself before the ice froze again.

So Jesus caused the last global warning!?!?!?!?

Burn him!?!?!?!

**Doggy Styles** · 28 January 2011, 09:41

Originally posted by ThomasSoerensen View Post

So Jesus caused the last global warning!?!?!?!?

Burn him!?!?!?!

Hold on, it might have been his mum.

Even though we were completely wrong, doesn't mean we are wrong