Bush: Torture was right because it got results

[TimberWolf]

Thing is, without rules war would be murder.

[Mich the Tester]

Your arguments are based on a lie. Everyone knows that no government, anywhere, at any time, has ever hired an intelligent person.

The Dutch government have hired me a few times. Oh wait, sorry,

[TimberWolf]

What about Hitler and his scientists. Do the pro torturers think it was okay for him to extract information from the bodies of his living prisoners so that future Germans (or Arians) might be spared some affliction or other? And should we use that information?

[Mich the Tester]

What about Hitler and his scientists. Do the pro torturers think it was okay for him to extract information from the bodies of his living prisoners so that future Germans (or Arians) might be spared some affliction or other? And should we use that information?

I'm not pro torture. But as for the first question, no I don't think it's OK. As for the second, yes it is; scientific knowledge that can be of real benefit should be used, even if it has been gained by morally reprehensible means. Not sure how much useful knowledge came from the Nazi experiments though.

[kandr]

What about Hitler and his scientists. Do the pro torturers think it was okay for him to extract information from the bodies of his living prisoners so that future Germans (or Arians) might be spared some affliction or other? And should we use that information?

Thats another topic completely.

[TimberWolf]

Thats another topic completely.

The doctors, who recommended that the CIA use saline solution for water-boarding rather than regular water, are alleged to have conducted "experiments" on nonconsenting human subjects. That's a violation of a host of medical ethics standards, including the 1947 Nuremburg Medical Code that was formulated in response to gruesome Nazi research on Jews, Gypsies, and captured enemy soldiers.
Do doctors use Nazi data in their research? - By Brian Palmer - Slate Magazine

Not sure how much useful knowledge came from the Nazi experiments though.

Not much, other than waterboarding techniques, judging by that article, though I thought there was great moral debate raging over the issue of whether to use it.

[d000hg]

If someone had information about a bomb that was going to explode and kill your family and 100 others, and you could only get that information by using stronger interrogation techniques, would you prefer them not to?

How do you KNOW they have information?

[shaunbhoy]

No I'm merely pointing out that your inability to see the point is due to a limitation of your intellectual apparatus and that probably accounts for you not being an officer.

You have to laugh when you hear sadguru pontificating in a manner which suggests he has even the first notion of what qualities might be required in an Army Officer. Especially when you consider that the nearest he has ever been to the military is when he watches the Remembrance Day Parades. And even then, only if Mummy has the TV on that channel!

[TimberWolf]

You have to laugh when you hear sadguru pontificating in a manner which suggests he has even the first notion of what qualities might be required in an Army Officer. Especially when you consider that the nearest he has ever been to the military is when he watches the Remembrance Day Parades. And even then, only if Mummy has the TV on that channel!

Were you an officer in the army? if so, what were the rules for torturing prisoners, if mum was not the word?

[d000hg]

My family aren't terrorists

The government doesn't know that. What if they get tipped off about your family, and use torture to make sure. After all, the tip-of might be real.


There was a really interesting blog on someone who waterboarded himself to see what it was like. Maybe even one of Nick's links.

Here it is