Split from Welcome FAQ thread - Is there a God? Discuss

[xoggoth]

Look at how UK society worked until a few centuries ago and I think much of it very similar to what we see Meercats do in Meercat Manor. Humans have built a whole lot more onto it than other social animals for obvious reasons but it's a fairly recent change and only came with a standard of living that allowed us time to think about how society might be improved.

[d000hg]

In my opinion if a higher intelligence created the world I live then it a was a trainee Bob, because it's tulipe. We tend to think of the beautiful complexities etc, what about the ugly truths.

The only explanations of things like MS, Alzhiemers, Cerebal Palsy, Typhoid, HIV etc etc is that God is a nasty piece of work if he purposely designed them, crap at his job if he didn't test properly, or he doesn't exist.

They're not issues I've ever felt challenging my faith so it's not an area I've read up on but I do know it's one of the more child-like questions... I don't mean as in "you're stupid" but "it's been asked since forever". Christian theology certainly has answers on this (though they might not be popular, Christianity is pretty controversial if you strip back the fluffy institutionalised veneer) and I suppose other religions do to. You'd be better finding a book (or short summary depending on interest) in the field of apologetics if you want to pit your thoughts against a properly argued case.

[d000hg]

Anyone smart who gives it more than 5 minutes thought obviously realises that religion is about controlling the little people. Give them a boogie man who sees all they do to get them to behave. It has been useful as a mechanism for keeping order and giving comfort; It has a value.

That's a weak argument, at odds with the facts. I can't speak for other faiths but Christianity certainly doesn't teach that, n fact one of the things it teaches very strongly is that leaders should be humble and servants to those they lead. That may be contrary to what organised religion has turned into in many cases but it's not what it teaches.

I've no idea of what percentage of the population 'need' religion, or at least the threat of a powerful god figure to keep them placid, but I imagine it's more than we may think; remember, if you're working in IT, you might be surrounded by geeks, but those geeks are some of the most intelligent people in any society. You would be shocked at how dumb some 'normal' people seem to be

Again, Christianity doesn't teach placidity and keeping under the thumb due to fear, but fairly extreme differences in how to live (not just "be nice"). In many countries you're under more fear becoming a Chirstian than going with the flow. My church has a majority of university-educated young working professionals, with a bunch of university students (and a smattering of lecturers/professors from the university!)

I don't deny in some cultures religion is taught in a more indoctrination/cultural way and as such many of those people may have no real faith but accept it as part of life. I don't think that's so relevant in developed nations which are not strongly religious though - many western European countries for instance and certainly the UK, which is definitely a secular nation despite our huge cultural background of religion.

[xoggoth]

We know what apologetics are d000hg. Why not humour us and give a precis of just one of these arguments you keep saying are in apologetics or at least a specific reference? I really can't see much point joining a debate at all if you are just going to tell people their point has been satisfactorily answered before by some unknown source.

If indeed it is. As I mentioned earlier, I did spend a good deal of time studying Catholic apologetics at school and I never found one damn bit to be convincing. Everything was:

a) Valid argument provided you accepted the assumptions it was based on.

b) Illogical non sequiturs like "everything we know came from something else so there must be a beginning" when a more logical conclusion would be that, since we have never seen a true beginning, only transitions, there was no beginning.

c) Mere allegories, like comparison of man making a watches, which is simply a reassembly of existing material, with the utterly different process of creation from nothing.

d) Presumptions of the "coal is black therefore everything that is black is coal" variety.

e) Totally incomprehensible drivel that even the masters at school did not seem to folllow.

[minestrone]

Can we just have a role call to all the people that do not believe in 'A God' that have bought a book that talks about 'A God' not existing?

If he is not there why are you so obsessed with the subject to spend 10 hours reading something you already agree with? Or did the book form your opinion?

Half the country thinks the Beatles were the best band EVER, I have no inclination to try to convince them otherwise. It's their belief.

[MarillionFan]

Can we just have a role call to all the people that do not believe in 'A God' that have bought a book that talks about 'A God' not existing?

If he is not there why are you so obsessed with the subject to spend 10 hours reading something you already agree with? Or did the book form your opinion?

Half the country thinks the Beatles were the best band EVER, I have no inclination to try to convince them otherwise. It's their belief.

Where's the Poll?

BTW. Marillion was the best band ever, but I won't hold it against you.

[minestrone]

Seriously, I just do not get why atheists are so obsessed with god not existing.

The longest posts in this thread are by people who claim that there is no God. Why?

[EC4N]

Seriously, I just do not get why atheists are so obsessed with god not existing.

The longest posts in this thread are by people who claim that there is no God. Why?

Because they are fighting their own conscience.

[MayContainNuts]

The jury is still out whether God exists or not.

But man needs to have a moral code to attain to. If that is by the basis of religion then this can only be a good thing.

But I have seen people swap from one of atheism to agnostic to zealot with equal vigour. I believe that religion suits those who seek it.

[Cliphead]

The jury is still out whether God exists or not.

But man needs to have a moral code to attain to. If that is by the basis of religion then this can only be a good thing.

But I have seen people swap from one of atheism to agnostic to zealot with equal vigour. I believe that religion suits those who seek it.

Arguing whether god exists or not is pissing in the wind, there's no proof either way.

A moral code does not require religion.